How to be successful in hard mode?

[Twigster]

Basically, if you can semi-competently run your own empire, you'll win, from what I've seen.

Please spend some time playing either RetreatUE or AI Improvement Mods on Extreme/Chaos difficulty and get back to me about this statement. More than competent at running my own empire, I have been absolutely crushed a few times. But, I win sometimes also.

[:D]

I do wonder if a pre-warp start is just another huge handicap to the ai.

Not in my experience, at the settings I play with.[8D]

[Bingeling]

Keep in mind, that with added difficulty you get a research penalty, while the AI get a research boost.

During pre-warp I would tend to do nothing. There is nothing to gain there, the likely effect of trying to "win" in my system is to spend the initial stores on ships and bases to be destroyed by pirates.

Protecting mines is generally very hard. Keep in mind that I usually play with (very) slow research, making it take longer time to catch up to the pirates. Add to this, quite a lot of pirates and no protection deals, and mines are under constant attack.

In the capital system there will typically be one or two mines that are targeted, while some are ignored. For instance in the "very many pirates, nearby" AAR I did, I had a continental with carbon fiber and stuff that was constantly attacked. I did have enough capital system forces to prevent pirates from hanging around, though.

Having a mine in a "minor colony" system was futile. Raiders arrive, it is hard to defend against them especially if they have weapons bypassing shields. This means they will hang around, and while doing so they will attack any mine in the system.

However, since I had a long pre-warp, any nearby system is already explored by the pirates starting nearby. And the rest may have gotten exploration data from spying or trading. And pirates do not visit system "randomly". Thus, a mine in a system with no colony, will tend to be left alone. Since pirates won't know it is there. I feel that such mines will only be attacked if pirates respawn and start nearby. Then there is a new group that will explore the systems and find the mine.

[Damiac]

Heh, I really need to try playing that way. I know my "Build mines absolutely everywhere" strategy won't work so well there... Especially if I don't make them mini defense bases...

[Twigster]

I second what Bingeling has said about mines in non-colony systems. Also, it hit me once while playing mega-empire; I checked my Resources and noticed that I had dozens of sources of every resource needed (OK, only a fraction of that for the major Luxury ones, but you get my drift). It was then that I realized that I could get along with far fewer sources, and ever since then I have far fewer mines (yes, I do that manually as well). And also, yes, they do tend to be (not-so-mini) defense basis. That the private sector pays for. [:D]

[Bingeling]

Build mines everywhere works quite well with lots of pirates. Lots of them will be destroyed, some of them will survive. And as long as "a few of each type" survive, you have no issue.

One "issue" could be that in non-colony systems, it could be better if all mines are destroyed than if "some" are destroyed. Because if pirates busted one mine, they should have discovered the other mines there and possibly return later to bust them. While if the system was empty when they last saw it, they have no reason to return.

Apart from that, one benefit of not doing "mines everywhere", could be that you can actually learn what is needed. If you spam "mines everywhere", I am not sure why you bother with manual construction ships. The AI can do that just as fine.

[Damiac]

Heh, true enough. I do like being able to specify where the mines go, and later on their main purpose is really to be a monitoring station with some guns(That I don't pay for directly). And early in the game, there's a lot of waiting around anyway. I probably could afford to start automating them a bit earlier in the game though.

[Bingeling]

I have never understood the need to cheat yourself by having the civilians pay for what is a state thing. In this case, monitoring stations.

If you want to cheat, just do the retrofit dance on your mines [:'(]

[Damiac]

Well, to me it's not entirely unreasonable for the government to require a "private" base (The government did pay for it after all) to keep a scanner running. After all, the government is protecting those bases, and it's probably more of a licensing thing than the civilians actually owning it.

Where it gets ridiculous is them paying me to retrofit their stations. I wish that could be patched out.

But, I know the AI doesn't stick monitoring stations on their mines... and I could take it further and stick scanners on all my civilian ships...

Of course, if the private sector weren't so outrageously wealthy, then it wouldn't be so easy to make them pay for everything. Where are they getting all that money anyway?!?

I'm currently playing a game on very hard, and once I got my medium space station armed and shielded I broke my protection agreement and haven't turned it back on. It's such a difference when you have to actually tax your home world, and worry about protecting your mines early on. I'm considering making a couple warp bubble warships to defend my home system mines... I plan to stick with the AI mine designs, but I guess we'll see how that goes as the game goes on. It's easy to start out with noble intentions...

I suppose I could build monitoring stations... but then I have to actually be picky about where I put them. What is this, a strategy game or something? [:D]

[Twigster]

I have never understood the need to cheat yourself by having the civilians pay for what is a state thing. In this case, monitoring stations.

Heh!... I have never seen it as cheating- it is a game dynamic. I do not, however, do that exploit whereby you pump up private sector bases to get private sector cash and then step them back down to previous lower-maintenance states. That is cheating, IMO.

[Retreat1970]

But, I know the AI doesn't stick monitoring stations on their mines

Some AI's do.

[Bingeling]

ORIGINAL: Retreat1970

But, I know the AI doesn't stick monitoring stations on their mines

Some AI's do.

It is good to hear the game is modable in that respect.

That a mod does something that is a bad idea, does not make it a good idea for the player

[Damiac]

I mean putting long range scanners on their mine bases, not building a seperate monitoring station. I assume that's what the player is supposed to do.

Well, it's a good idea, it helps you win easier, and that is the goal after all. However sadly distant worlds requires you to tie one hand behind your back to have a decent game seemingly, because it offers you so many ways to easily have a huge advantage. So it's a bad idea in terms of challenge. However if the AI players did it too, then it would go back to being a good idea for everyone, assuming that lots of sensor coverage for all empires is considered a good thing.

[Retreat1970]

I mean putting long range scanners on their mine bases

Again some AI's do. I don't know everybodys mod, but mine does. I think Icemanias does. It's an easy fix. In the mine templates change long range scanner from 0 to 1.

As far as difficulty goes, you can make your game as hard as you want on startup. Besides extreme difficulty, you can determine the races you play against. Imagine a galaxy full of bugs, and you're all alone against them. Or even a galaxy full of bugs set at tech 7 start, and you're at prewarp. If you can beat that, then I will listen about the game being easy.

[Damiac]

Well, if you have to give yourself giant handicaps for a challenge, then yes, the game is easy. That's OK, I don't mind terribly having to handicap myself so long as I don't have to be intentionally stupid, or play in a less fun way in the process. It's good to see that at least in some mods, the AI does stick long range scanners on their mining bases, meaning it's fair game for me to do so as well.

I certainly won't say that I've won the game on the hardest settings, even with other things being fair. And even if I manage to win perfectly well on extreme, there's always the AI mods, which I plan to start playing with once I get to that point.

I have also considered playing on normal, with myself on pre-warp, and everyone else at the next level. Losing the big head start the player typically gets might go a long way toward evening things out. Does anyone play that way, or are there issues with that I'm not seeing?

[Twigster]

Imagine a galaxy full of bugs, and you're all alone against them. Or even a galaxy full of bugs set at tech 7 start, and you're at prewarp. If you can beat that, then I will listen about the game being easy.

I honestly doubt that that one can be won. [:'(]

I chuckle every time I read someone say how easy this game is... sure, it CAN be too easy, depending on your settings. Conversely, I do not see how playing certain mods with the hardest settings (and I am only talking about Extreme/Chaos, Very Expensive Research-999k- and lots of strong Pirates) starting at pre-warp can at all be termed 'handicapping' one's self. But then, apparently some people don't like playing this game for a challenge. Oh well. [8|]

[Damiac]

No, I wouldn't consider the stuff you listed as handicapping yourself, that's just game setup.

I was talking more about not using tax rates to the best effect because the AI doesn't, not doing custom designs because the AI is bad at it, not cancelling/re-requesting protection deals to save money and base destruction early on, not arming your mining bases to the teeth because the AI doesn't do it.

I guess you must chuckle and roll your eyes a lot around here, because from the looks of all the mods and discussions, the game is too easy, and lots of people say it regularly. That indicates they actually DO want to play the game for a challenge. But apparently some people just want to be smug. Oh well.[8|]

[Retreat1970]

I apologize Damiac. My intention wasn't to be smug. I do like reading your posts, but at times I lack a certain civility.

[Twigster]

I guess you must chuckle and roll your eyes a lot around here, because from the looks of all the mods and discussions, the game is too easy, and lots of people say it regularly. That indicates they actually DO want to play the game for a challenge. But apparently some people just want to be smug. Oh well.

LOL! Let's take a deep breath for a moment...

I have never heard of anyone who plays on the hardest settings say this game was too easy, ROTFLMMFAO! [:D]

On the contrary, there are numerous posts from people on much easier settings saying the game is too easy, and for good reason. I am also not being smug- simply observing and reporting. [;)]

[Retreat1970]

I have also considered playing on normal, with myself on pre-warp, and everyone else at the next level

That's a great idea, and it should make a big challenge. If you do it, let us know how it turns out. We need more AAR writers anyways.

[Damiac]

ORIGINAL: Retreat1970

I apologize Damiac. My intention wasn't to be smug. I do like reading your posts, but at times I lack a certain civility.

My reply was for Twigster, not you, but I was probably a bit oversensitive, something about those eye roll guys really rub me the wrong way. Oh well, sorry for the hostility there.


So I played a game on harder, trying to avoid what seems like some of the cheesier tactics, especially constantly making and breaking protection agreements to avoid building defenses early on. This changes everything, as you can't afford to keep paying protection, and defenses cost money too! (duh). So it becomes impossible to get by on 0%, or even fairly low taxes. On top of that, my medium space port was blown up by pirates at one point, setting me way back.

I recovered decently well, and after getting back on my feet, decided I could use some more income, so it was time to steal a capital. I had some nearby harkonians (sp?) and figured I'd go after them. Destroying their military was a cakewalk, and they had about 300k strength in defense. I ordered up some troops, a few troop carriers, and waited...

Well, I didn't exactly plan this out well, because the maintenance for all those troops was obscene, and before I even had enough troops and transports for the invasion, I was in the red. And it was getting worse and worse.
I jacked up taxes as high as I could, and waited a bit to see if my cash stabilized. It didn't, I ended up at -18k, and realized I needed to take more drastic action.

I realized my invasion plans were not going to work, at least at this point, so I disbanded pretty much all my ground troops, and scrapped a bit of my military. A big setback, but I was back in the green. I pushed my taxes down to where I was just barely coming out ahead, hoping to grow my homeworld a bit more, which was at a dismal 5 or 6 billion population.

Well, this was all too little much too late. I managed to capture a weak homeworld, but the Harkonians had come back in a major way after I crushed them early on. And apparently they held a grudge about that earlier conquest attempt... They and a number of their allies declared war on me. I held them off for a bit, but it was obvious I was only falling further and further behind. My empire fought bravely at the end, but it was not enough, and they were conquered.


After that, I started a new game, same settings, except I picked the lipids this time, and dropped the house rule about pirate protection. I was able to keep 0% taxes until max population, which I then realized is something I've been depending on, because with these low taxes and fast growth, I was able to afford an invasion of one of my neighbors home worlds, which I now hold.

I'm readying to invade the Harkonians, to get revenge(or is it re-revenge? I did start it after all). I have about 1,250k strength of invaders, some of them armored, and they have about 900k strength at their homeworld. I think I should win, although there seems to be more than just these numbers behind the scenes, as I've lost miserably in ground battles where I had a pretty good strength advantage.