BoB41 OOB set up

[Hard Sarge]

been working on BoB41, getting as much info in as I can and was kind of shocked at how many of the key Squadrons are out of place (maybe on R@R, refitting or what not)

so, since this is a "what if" campaign, was wondering if I should be trying to stick to history and place every unit where it belongs or, if I should be setting it up as if the what if campaign was real and the people in charge know it is about to happen ?

[Reg]

A conundrum indeed.

As a historical player, I went for option A. It gives a feel for what the real commanders had to work with. As commander you should be able to rearrange your forces if necessary and if units are 'off the line', well, that's something you would have had to deal with.

However, thinking about it, I am not so convinced this is appropriate for a game.

Assuming the setup is reasonable and fairly realistic, I am starting to lean toward option B as it makes the game playable without making an early game interbase shuffle necessary. This would be a distraction for the Allied player just as he will be kicking off his campaign. Newer players would probably never get their forces into an efficient arrangement so a reasonable setup will greatly improve scenario playability.

Can I change my vote???

[Hard Sarge]

Roger and I agree, but the trouble is, this is a what if, so the placement of the units in real life, are based on other reasons then what is about to happen (which to be honest, most of the LW units have already been pulled from the coast and are either finishing up in the Balkens, going to the Desert or setting up for the attack on Russia, so much more reason for the RAF to stand down some units and refit, rest them up

[Mad Onion]

99% of players dont know where squadrons was based in real life, and most of them dont care.

I went fore option 2, mayby AI will do better with this setup.

[Hard Sarge]

LOL
well, with in reason, I think the players will care, but it is a what if, and not a this is what happened, so we got a little leeway
 
which overall, that is what I am thinking about, what is the AI going to do
 
I can pretty much set the game up, so the player can move alot of his units around at start and be happy with it (other then the turn they move, they can not be used)
 
 

[Hard Sarge]

Well so far, the vote is to keep it as it is now, but, unless I get some code in, to make the Groups do what they should, I may have to over ride the vote
 
but as I think we can get the code to do what I want, I think we can leave it as it is for now
 
current test in in the 150 turn range, the CW is just holding on by the skin of there teeth (a silly mistake I caught will give them a little better status in the next test run)
 
bloody little battle, 5000 losses between the 2 sides !!!!
 
hmmm, I take that back, I think the CW is going to hang on for the win
 
looks like the AI had Goring in command, they had the battle early, but couldn't finish it off, have to figure out why it broke off from the sector airfields
 
but all in all, it is looking good
 
now to get it to do more what I want it to, instead of what the AI wants to do :):)
 
(and just in case, that is the Royalty I and we)

[pompack]

I went with C because this is a "what if". Would the units really remain in their historical positions if the circumstances had changed enough to create a 41 BoB?

[BigDuke66]

This is a "What-If" scenario so what exactly happend that this became "reality", what is the plot?

I would go for the point that matches the plot at best.

[harley]

Intersting points, BigDuke.

What if:

Hitler, having failed to gain control of France quick enough, bidded his time building forces for a 1941 invasion of Great Britain, intending to neutralise GB prior to Barbarossa, scheduled for June 9th, 1942. Italy, seeing the slow progress in northern France chooses to remain neutral, thereby freeing the United Kingdom from sending men and machines to Africa.

Result: Lots of Luftwaffe, and lots of RAF. Possibly slower development of new models.

What if:

Hitler, having failed to gain control of France quick enough, bidded his time building forces for a 1941 invasion of Great Britain, intending to neutralise GB prior to Barbarossa, scheduled for June 9th, 1942. Italy, seeing Great Britain weakend invades Egypt, thereby forcing the United Kingdom to send men and machines to Africa.

Result: A Very powerful Luftwffe, a weakened RAF. Possible slower Luftwaffe development, but faster RAF.  Not for the faint of heart.


What if:

Hitler, having failed to gain control the skies over England in 1940, bidded his time building forces for a 1941 aerial battle over England with the sole intent of destroying the RAF and the civillian will to fight, forcing the UK to sue for peace, thus preventing GB from intervening in the on-going campaign in Russia. Italy, seeing Great Britain weakend invades Egypt, thereby forcing the United Kingdom to send men and machines to Africa.

Result: Not so many Luftwaffe, but veterans with excellent equipment, and a newly resurgent RAF with many veterans, better tactics (I'd need to check to see if that's simulated, I'm not sure right now) and better machines.

[Hard Sarge]

Greeesh
 
What if
 
having failed in the first Battle, Hitler decides with his eastern flank secure, to reopen the battle come spring
 
(which is what everyone was expecting, even the Germens, most thought as they massed on the border of Russia, that they were going to pass on though and attack the English though the middle east)
 
Depending on what happens, there is a stalemate in the desert, so there are no major battles going on, England keeps more of its airpower at home, allowing Italy to offer parts of its airforce to the Germens for the upcoming battle
 
 
of course, there could be a better story line, but it is not written yet
 
 
 
 
 

[BigDuke66]

Last sounds best.

Hitler doesn't go the Napoleon way(Can't fight them directly so I fight them indirectly).
He sticks to his plan of an invasion, delays Russia to 42 and keeps up(maybe even raise)the pressure in Africa.

One question to the options:
-place all CW units where they were in real life at this time
-Place CW units to give the RAF the best chance to defend themselfs

Aren't those somehow the same?
I mean Britain expected an invasion in 41 so I guess the placed there units were the could defend Britain at best in real life or didn't they?

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Last sounds best.

Hitler doesn't go the Napoleon way(Can't fight them directly so I fight them indirectly).
He sticks to his plan of an invasion, delays Russia to 42 and keeps up(maybe even raise)the pressure in Africa.

One question to the options:
-place all CW units where they were in real life at this time
-Place CW units to give the RAF the best chance to defend themselfs

Aren't those somehow the same?
I mean Britain expected an invasion in 41 so I guess the placed there units were the could defend Britain at best in real life or didn't they?

No, the English didn't expect an invasion, once they knew the Ground troops were moving, and with there secrets, they knew what was in the works, they even warned Russia, but they didn't believe it

a lot of squadrons are in 13 group, under going rest, refit and retraining, getting ready to be shipped out

of course, they still kept the best weapons at home, just in case

[BigDuke66]

Ok, so we have an BoB in 41.
That would mean that the troops are still in France, without troops why try to achieve air superiority?
Bombing UK out of the war didn't work in 40 why should it in 41.

So I guess Balkan & Africa campaign are runing so ground and air units are being relocate for those jobs but the major troop concentration are still in France.

So I go for the 3. Option.
UK expects an Invasion in 41 so bring the RAF in the best position to defend them.
Anything else wouldn't make much sense.

[Hard Sarge]

pretty much the idea

but I would expect, the East to be seen as "safe" so no Balkans or Greece (maybe tie in that Yugo, which did join the Axis, did not have the coup that swung it around to Allied and then was overran in revenge, so, with the statemate in the desert, no need for English forces to be going to the Balkans either)

so basicly, the Med is a safe zone, as is the East, other then guard troops, most of the Land Forces are still based in France, along with most of the Airpower

the Axis is going to be Strong from the start, the English, are going to be stronger, then in 40, but nowhere near as strong as the Axis, but will have a large number of new Squadrons coming online to help out

(I count 31 new Squadrons that show up during this battle)

[BigDuke66]

Yea I think Hitler wanted to push Yugo into the Axis before Barbarossa so with Russia delayed to 42 the diplomats would maybe take a slower more sensitive course so that the Balkans would stay quiet in 41.

That would also open the way for the use of Fallschirmjäger in the first invasion wave.

[Hard Sarge]

so, if this is the vote, I will leave the OOB as I have it

I think it is going to make the GB a little weak at the start of the Campaign

(we looking at about 3800 Axis ready vs 890 GB ready when the battle starts)

[Hard Sarge]

we have started up a PBEM game of the 41 Campaign

from some of the things said about the first turn (that I could print) I think we may want to rethink the placement of the CW units

(the placement in real life, is based on the fact that the English know that most of the LW has been removed from France and is either in the East (Germany, Balkans and so on) or being refitted and rested and not sitting on the coast of France waiting on the word to begin the attack again)

[BigDuke66]

As I said:
"UK expects an Invasion in 41 so bring the RAF in the best position to defend them.
Anything else wouldn't make much sense."