AAR swift vs fochinell

[wernerpruckner]

29.9.1943

good weather once again...

Italy:POWER Cotilia & Papigno Velino; PORT Piombino & Ancona; A/F Rieti & Perugia; CHEM Bussi Elec Chem

West: BBFAC Kugelfischer & Fichtel&Sachs & Vereinigte#2; STEEL Ougre Maribaye & John Cockerell; A/F Venlo

Night: Hannover & Berlin

A deep strike to Schweinfurt BBFAC industries by the 8th AF....heavy losses on both sides...but his escort were able to keep my fighters of the heavies for most of the time [:(]

89:130 losses


30.9.1943

Gavin has stil enough power to go for some other ajor sites...

Italy: RR Bologna - my forces fought an excellent battle here [:D] ; STEEL Nero Montoro ( he does not seem to recognize that he has attacked it a dozen times...[:'(] )A/F Grosseto; RR Rome/Tiburtina & L´Aquila

West:
CHEM IG Farben Knapsack; STEEL Stahlwerke Krieger; ARM Deutsche Eisenwerke; POWER Oissel & Mazingarbe; PORT Dunkirk

Night:
Pisa, Halle

41:96 losses

1st October 1943

resting turn for the Luftwaffe, only a few Allied missions
RR Ghent
BC attacked Wilhelmshaven and the ARM Alkett Borsigwalde ( with Mossiebombers....)

0:5 losses

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: fochinell
RR's are important for terror damage and supplies, as I hate raids against TRP targets - too much Flak attrition for practically zero result. AF's will be hit, though... [8|]

I generally do a similar thing but in the old version Supplies never get affected to LCU's = even if all of Italy is burning Red the Gustav Line has more cans of sardines than a fishmonger would know what to do with.

[Speedysteve]

2:1  losses in Axis Favour = Allies are doing pretty good IMO. I've rarely seen in a PBEM game less than a 1.5:1 loss ratio (unless it's Nik playing me mind you[;)])

[fochinell]

2:1 losses in Axis Favour = Allies are doing pretty good IMO. I've rarely seen in a PBEM game less than a 1.5:1 loss ratio (unless it's Nik playing me mind you[;)])

The impact of losses are contingent upon 2 factors; the attrition inflicted on the Axis aircraft (which isn't necessarily reflected in the AS score) and the bombing results.

At the moment, BC's campaign of constant medium-sized strikes on urban RR targets is doing better than expected, so my bombing score is better than the overall losses (which are primarily driven by day combat rather than the night campaign) would normally indicate. So my SB score is reasonably good.

The attritional losses are excellent so far in terms of losses inflicted/suffered, as a 2:1 loss rate gets much closer to 1:1 when the Flak is taken out of the equation. The only problem is that while this is efficient, the scale of the losses are insufficient. As the Allied player you can afford to lose a lot more than I've done so far, and even a 2.5:1 loss rate in favour of the Axis is actually in the Allies favour if the scale of the losses is sufficient. In other words, killing 100 Axis aircraft for the loss of 250 Allied in one turn can still represent an Allied victory if the pressure is kept up on the longer term and the Axis loss rate remains high. On the other hand, a loss of 10 Axis fighters for 15 Allied in one turn is nice for the Allied player, but not decisive.

So, in my opinion, the bottom line for the Allied player is a good balance of efficiency (the loss ration) and scale. Now get back out there and die for the glory of Galactic Evil.

[davidjruss]

How are you both coping with the scrolling etc playing this old game on fast modern pc's ?

DavidR

[wernerpruckner]

BtR does not have a too big problem with scrolling speed.
I control/play most of it with the quick-map or with the various lists.

also you can play it in full screen

[zasgard]

I'm diggin all these reports...man!....when is this game coming out?

Zas

[Mad Onion]

ORIGINAL: zasgard

I'm diggin all these reports...man!....when is this game coming out?

Zas

Good question. Next please.

[fochinell]

The scrolling isn't much of a problem for the allied player, but it does bug sometimes during the planning phase. But that's more down to the small screen size involved (changing waypoints or escort details and then attempting to use the visible map) - which is a real [:@] sometimes. I don't think the speed of the game on newer PC's is a problem; but I can remember running major attacks against the AI, going out to town and then coming back to find BC stragglers still limping back to base.

[wernerpruckner]

nothing important happened through the last few turns....so I only post the losses

10/2/43
53:101

10/3/43
3:44
Invasion of Corsica

10/4/43
4:10
bad weather [:)]

10/5/43
2:13
more bad weather [:D]

10/6/43
8:56
Luftwaffe still sleeping

10/7/43
21:79
most of it tactical stuff

10/8/43
0:0
weather again
score is 1/8/10 [:'(]

[wernerpruckner]

just had a look through my units....
 
 
more than half of my German units are understrenght [X(] 
I´d just need several weeks of low intensity warfare just to fill them up
( around 600 pilots short at the moment )

[fochinell]

nothing important happened through the last few turns....

Including yet another day on 7th October 1943 where the lead bomber units take off but the rest don't bother and go off down the pub 8th AF and BC suffer from this in the same turn; but then I am trying to run missions in dodgy weather. The alternative is to run none. [:(]

[Hard Sarge]

you know, you getting this way too much ?

are you sure you got the game on speed 1 ?

I know at higher speeds, just the lead unit will take off ????

[wernerpruckner]

game speed is usually 1
except for very low intensity turns with lots of recce.

Gavin loves the weather in this game [:D]

[wernerpruckner]

10/9/1943

several heavy raids...
in the morning a Bf109G6/R6 unit got mauled while it tried to intercept some raids in the Milano area ( 15 lost Bf109G6/R6 for just one !!! killed bomber )

Later that day many tactical raids in Italy.

In the West several coastline attacks and later the raids of the day by the 8th AF against the UFACs around Bremen.....what a bloody mess !!

113 German lost A/C for 166 killed Allied ones ( but there were some B17 with them [:D] )

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: swift

game speed is usually 1
except for very low intensity turns with lots of recce.

Gavin loves the weather in this game [:D]

roger, but from what he is reporting, is not how the game is suppost of worked, if the raid is delayed, the whole raid is delayed, so the raid either takes off, or it does not, the fighters that do not take off at the same time as the raid, has a chance to be delayed, not the bombers that should be in the air already, for the bombers it is all or nothing

he shouldn't be having the lead group take off, and the rest of the raid abort

I have seen raids cancelled because of weather, or be delayed, but not part of the raid take off and the rest of it aborts

I just ran a turn, in BoB41, the ITs took off on time, and then the 6 follow up GE raids all delayed, 40 some minutes behind time, before they took off (the Its got slaughtered)

but none of them, only had a lead unit take off

[wernerpruckner]

roger, but from what he is reporting, is not how the game is suppost of worked, if the raid is delayed, the whole raid is delayed, so the raid either takes off, or it does not, the fighters that do not take off at the same time as the raid, has a chance to be delayed, not the bombers that should be in the air already, for the bombers it is all or nothing

don´t start to sound like JCL - you know that happens fairly often in BtR ( but I must say I have not seen it that often in BoB )

usually it is BC that has this problem ( around 10% of all raids ) and for the 15th and 8th it is much lesser problem ( around 2% of the raids )

It seems to me it happens more if you have differen ttypes of A/C in a raid

[fochinell]

don´t start to sound like JCL - you know that happens fairly often in BtR ( but I must say I have not seen it that often in BoB )

I don't recall seeing it in BoB, but it usually happens to me several times in BtR. It's happening a lot more in this game than usual, but then the weather is particularly bad in this game - at at least more frequently marginal than usual.

usually it is BC that has this problem ( around 10% of all raids ) and for the 15th and 8th it is much lesser problem ( around 2% of the raids )

BC do seem to have the problem more often, but I tend to see it a little more often with the 8th/15th AFs than 1 in 50 missions; but certainly less than 1 in 20 (5%)

It seems to me it happens more if you have differen ttypes of A/C in a raid

I deliberately don't mix types on daylight raids (e.g. I don't mix B-24D's with B-24J's, or B-17F's with B-17G's). I think the explanation may be down to differing weather over the relevant bases; my hunch is that the lead unit departure or delay is governed by cloud cover over the departure point, while the following units take off/delay/abort depending upon the cloud over over their bases. But that's just a guess.

If Werner sticks to a clock speed of 1 I don't know what is causing it.

[fochinell]

In the West several coastline attacks and later the raids of the day by the 8th AF against the UFACs around Bremen.....what a bloody mess !!

113 German lost A/C for 166 killed Allied ones ( but there were some B17 with them [:D] )


[:@]

This exposes another "feature" of BtR, if my reading of the replay is correct: 2 forces of 160 B-17F's each follow the same fairly direct path out to the Bremen UFACs with heavy escort, all units bomb and return. The major fight is on the egress route (back along the ingress route in northern Holland), where around 24 B-17F's go down after fighter attack. At this point the icons in the replay give out (oh, for flight boxes instead of plane icons), but the remaining 97 B-17's which go down seem to go down more than 2 hours after they bombed back over the Borkum area. Even the stragglers should have been limping back to East Anglia at that point, not flying unescorted over the Dutch islands back towards their target.

121 B-17's lost in total. [X(] Ouch!

Werner can confirm or disprove this, but it looks like the bombers returned to the UK coast and then flew back out over their route, doubling back without orders. Although it's against our house rules to intercept returning raids, I can't blame Werner for doing it this time as I had enough bomber units available to send a raid down the track of the first raid and I've done this before; I suspect he attacked what he legitimately thought was a new raid.

However, it means my bomber losses go up by more than 300% through no fault of my own.

[Hard Sarge]

from what I have seen, we got most of this double back corrected, but every now and then it pops back in, which Harley thinks he knows what is causeing it, so it should be another one we can cross off the list of old bugs