Keeping a record of damaged claims and about strafing (!)

[Augenstein]

I was wondering if we could add a database that kept a record of damaged enemy a/c.

I already asked about this a long time ago in the ezboard-forum and Harley replied:

"There is a tracker in the save game that records which pilot damaged an AC, but it is cleared if the damaged AC makes it home, thus no credit is given to the victor."

Is it possible to have this kind of feature in the new BTR? It is widely known fact that the Allies kept a close record of damaged and probably downed enemy a/c.

Also, I was wondering if we could have more detailed aerial battles, like adding a message level 4 or something?

[Hard Sarge]

Greesh
I hopeing to get them to add in ground kills !
damage claims could be HARD

but the more I think on it, I kind of like that info, and think that info should be kept and shown

we can always ask

[Augenstein]

Yeah! Ground kills would be kewl as well, forgot that one.

And while we are talking about ground kills, one thing that has always bothered me is that when you strafe an airfield there is loads of PILOT casualties. I dont think it is very realistic when you strafe an airfield, destroy 5 aircraft and kill 5 pilots and wound 5 more in the process [:-]

[The Dude]

And while we are talking about ground kills, one thing that has always bothered me is that when you strafe an airfield there is loads of PILOT casualties. I dont think it is very realistic when you strafe an airfield, destroy 5 aircraft and kill 5 pilots and wound 5 more in the process

This is accounted for by the fact that if the raid is known to be close to the base then the unit would be on a higher alert level. Pilots would be on the flight line, in their planes or at a ready shack. All these locations are generally priority tgts or unprotected, and thus it would be very easy for pilots to het killed or wounded by ground attack. Several JG unit histories speak of numerous casualties from Allied fighter bomber attacks on their bases

I think the system should be left as is

[Hard Sarge]

Well
with in game, at the start of each day (Harley may be able to explain it better then I) a pilot is assigned to a plane

if something happens to that plane, then the pilot also is taken into account

so if plane is damaged, there is a chance the pilot may be damaged also, if the plane is killed, then the pilot also has a chance to be killed also, or wounded or "bailed" out

which so saying, I believe only ready planes (landing, refueling, refueled) are counted for pilot losses

a unready plane at the start of the day, should not have a pilot assigned to it, so if a unready plane is damaged or killed, only the plane is lost

so if after a raid you are seeing more pilot losses then plane kills, the damaged planes had damaged/killed pilots

biggest hassle of course, is how to count damaged planes, there may be 30 planes at a base that is attacked, after the 3rd sweep comes in, you count 15 killed and 45 damaged planes from the raids !!

great deal, but there were only 30 planes there

(the starting set up for OOB 1.05 there was a GE base in the MED that had 3 Gruppen on it, 2 full and 1 weak, I used to be able to plot and get around 75 kills and 150 damaged planes from that base)

of course, then we get into the SAS bug, which depending on how you view it, the bug part may just be in how long it takes the game to report the kill, not the fact that the plane should of been a kill when the raid was over

(basic, if I got the info right, a plane should be "killed" when it gets to 100 damage, but on the ground and what not, it may take 30 damage on this pass, then take 50 damage on the next pass, then another raid comes in and does 75 damage to the plane, it should be seen as being 100% damaged, but the game does not see it that way, later on when the game does it's clean up and what not, it sees this plane is sitting here with 155 damage, and kills it, but it seems to take 3 days to report it, don't quote me, just simple verison)

[von Shagmeister]

ORIGINAL: The Dude

This is accounted for by the fact that if the raid is known to be close to the base then the unit would be on a higher alert level. Pilots would be on the flight line, in their planes or at a ready shack. All these locations are generally priority tgts or unprotected, and thus it would be very easy for pilots to het killed or wounded by ground attack. Several JG unit histories speak of numerous casualties from Allied fighter bomber attacks on their bases

I think the system should be left as is

Fair enough if the A/F being strafed has a/c and pilots on it at cockpit readiness but what about if the A/F being attacked is a nightfighter base during the middle of the day. Most of the pilots would be asleep and by this stage of the war the majority of those would be accommodated off base. At present if you strafe a nightfighter base and destroy/damage a/c then pilot casualties occur as well.

So I agree with Augenstein that the way casualties occur needs to be refined.

von Shagmeister

[Augenstein]

Besides it is a very easy way to annihilate experienced pilots (attack the airbase of a crackunit, say like JG26 which bases are usually near the the channel and easily reached by Allied forces), so it would be nice to fix this just to balance the gamea bit...

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Shaggy
well, hassle is, while the NF's are not at cockpit readyness, they are still at combat readyness, since they can be ordered to take off during the day

I don't know a easy or sound work around as to how the game assigns pilots to which plane

(but overall, I agree, I don't like seeing NF pilots getting killed in there planes like that)

[otisabuser2]

I have read annecdotal evidence of pilots being caught by raids, when about to take off in their planes, also when caught on the ground re-fuelling/ rearming.

Has anyone read an account where a group pilots were killed when their ready shack or other accomodation was hit ?

[Hard Sarge]

Not that same thing, but...

ever wonder why you don't hear much about VMF-214 after Pappy got shot down ?

they were on board the USS Franklin, when it was hit, one of the bombs went off in the messroom/ready room for the Squadron, most of the pilots were there at the time

(of course, most of the Pilots of the Black Sheep Fame time were back in the states and it was a all but new squadron, but over all, it went out of action for a very long time)

[Augenstein]

Otisabuser, yes ofcourse it happened, but it wasn't that frequent.

[The Dude]

Besides it is a very easy way to annihilate experienced pilots (attack the airbase of a crackunit, say like JG26 which bases are usually near the the channel and easily reached by Allied forces), so it would be nice to fix this just to balance the gamea bit...

This is the reason why in 43 they pulled JG 2 and 26 from the coast and positioned them furthur inland. Keeping them at Mardyck and Wevelgehm was making them ineffective and vulnerable


A whole staffel got smoked by a Russian night intruder. I think it was JG 51 or 53 and they were killed by a single bomb hit on thier bunker.

[otisabuser2]

What about the pilots chance of survival/injury if caught in his plane on the ground vs in the air ?

It seem logical that the chances of survival on the ground are many times higher. Firstly there is little chance of all those horrifying demises happening ( being trapped in a falling plane due to spin or disorientation, hitting the tail on the way out, getting parachute caught on the tail, parachuting while burning, parachute not opening, accident on hitting ground..... ).

Secondly, there is the added chance on the ground of help being near to hand to help get the pilot out, extinguish flames and give medical aid.

regrads Otis

[Hard Sarge]

errr
I think I would have to disagree
I think a pilot got a much better chance when the plane is in the air, then if he is in the plane on the ground

(also, you got 8-16-24 P-47's roaring over the Airfield guns blasing, I don't think too many people are going to be rushing around trying to help people get out of a burning plane)

[otisabuser2]

Hi HS,

we are discussing Augenstein's idea that too many pilots are shown as killed/injured when the planes are straffed on the ground.

I am saying that the chances of survival in a plane that's just been destroyed/damaged on the ground are probably higher than that in the air.

(also, you got 8-16-24 P-47's roaring over the Airfield guns blasing, I don't think too many people are going to be rushing around trying to help people get out of a burning plane)

Granted, but the chances of someone running up to your plane on foot while it is in the air doing 200 mph are considerably smaller, I think. [:'(]

[Hard Sarge]

We could try some tests to see how they compare ?

your the one who brought up a real life question, I understand what we are talking about

I think I can work up a test to see how they match up (to be honest, I do not know how it works or why, just telling what I think or have been told)