LOL what timing

[Hard Sarge]

09:16

a good day so far

7 losses for 11 enemy (only lost 3 planes to landings)

Boscome Downs 46%
Saro 71%
Portsmouth Docks 69%
Portsmouth 45%-34%
Cheathem Docks 8% !!!!!
London 74%-2%
London Docks 100% !

only one squadron from 12 group made contact, and we split damaged planes out of it

1300 planes up for me, 174 for GB

think I still got a midmorning raid coming, and a afternoon raid, then there is the night strikes

[Hard Sarge]

oh, you guys are bullies
22 planes take off to attack 11 110's !

2 110s are damaged, Thames Haven Oil hit for 25%

bad news 3 Canes fly into Balloons, all 110s lands

(I hope we can talk about Balloons, I think they are silly, and they are really dangerous to the GB)

[Hard Sarge]

Woolwhich Arsenal 30%
Pobjoy Aero 36%

nailed a Squadron leader, but never got the report of the kill ? out of the blue I got a bailed and rescued message

LOL I think I seen a mini FR
6 Canes picked up the 110s right after the attack on Pobjoy, and hung in space for about 5 minutes, then both went on there way

1500 GE planes have been up, 214 GB

[Hard Sarge]

Night wasn't as good

lost 3 planes landing and one was shot down, I finally shot down a NF landing

so I lost 11 (6 to landing) and the GB lost 16

a good day, but I need rest

score 4-3-0, FC has 672 planes ready (lowest I have seen) (may mean he is moving back to 11 group)

1727 missions for me, 290 for the GB (LOL 76 were night missions)

[Speedysteve]

We're kicking your arse [:'(]

[Hard Sarge]

Arse ?

is that something like the beaches in Ireland you are keeping me away from ?

[Hard Sarge]

oops, Beta calling, I got work to do

be back tomorrow

[steveh11Matrix]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Arse ?

is that something like the beaches in Ireland you are keeping me away from ?

Just been reading this, good fun.

Arse is the correct spelling of the word meaning your 'Lower Back'...

Steve.

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi Sarge IIRC isn't ALUM also an easy knockout victory target?

Steven

sorry Steven, missed this post

I can look into it

[Hard Sarge]

turn 9
got great weather today, I need a rest, so over a small number of raids are sent out, it is HARD to leave the rest on the ground, with the sky so clear

only send out 1294 planes today, the GB counter with 100, I lose 6 (2 to Flak) while the GB lose 8

should of shut it down, my ready planes only increased 170 planes

score, 4-3-0

day 10

this time we get another nice day, plot out 2 major raids and let the rest sleep, 555 GE planes take off, and 64 counter them

raids were enough to try and mantain the damage level, score still 4-3-0

I lose 4 (3 to Flak) the GB lose 2
score of 4-3-0

day 11
another great day !!!!!
I need a day of rest

well time to go for broke, I need to start over on the radar sites and the Sector AFs

aim for a number of sites around Middle Wallop, but this is at the end of my fighter range, hit some radar and try to reshut down some Sector fields

Hammer London during the day

FC is at almost full strength, so expect they to put up a fight today

I hammered London, and do well with the Factories above Middle Wallop
FC comes up strong early, but do not reinforce the first take off, only 274 GB planes show up for battle

I lose 19 planes, (2 more to flak) while the GB lose 22 planes
score is now 3-4-0 (the Drop in AS is more my ready level then damage)

[Hard Sarge]

days 12 and 13 I rest
what a waste, the GE don't get replacement pilots ?
some of my fighter units have been shy of pilots from the beginning of the game
none of my reading on the battle, say the GE were short of pilots from the start, and couldn't replace there losses

it was the GB that were worried about keeping the pilot strength up

day 14
this is nasty, the GB come out to fight

if my bombs worked, this could be fun, but

hit Tangmere and Hendley, 200 + bombers to each, and nothing

most times I am giving as good as I get, but the human players planes don't know how to land (same in BTR) and I lose over 10 planes to land (no clouds, no damage, just can't land)

all day long, the score changes from 4 to 5 AS, depending, on how many planes are placed into repair

nights attacks hit Manchester and Liverpool, damage levels look low, but I score good points for them

plus I nail 3 planes on the ground during my NI attacks

I lose 44 planes, the GB lose 35, the score stands at 4-5-0, I fly 1970 missions, to the GB 723

it may get bloody, but if the GB stays and fight, this may be over soon, but expect them to pull back again

attack routines are screwed up, the GB bounce the 109s, it was the 109s that normally had the Alt edge
the Brits pilots complain over and over again, that they always had to climb into the attack vs the 109s, they either had to climb to the fighters or go into the bombers and let the fighters attack them

[otisabuser2]

Hi all,

Hi Sarge IIRC isn't ALUM also an easy knockout victory target?

Maybe.

They got the factories wrong though. So this is something that could be fixed.
[:)]

regards Otisabuser

[Hard Sarge]

Hey OB
good to see ya

well, I see they got a pilot hassle, I got JG's with 40+ pilots and other withs 20, which they had 20 at the start, so they are not drawing replacements

oh well, work time

[otisabuser2]

Hi HS,

attack routines are screwed up, the GB bounce the 109s, it was the 109s that normally had the Alt edge
the Brits pilots complain over and over again, that they always had to climb into the attack vs the 109s, they either had to climb to the fighters or go into the bombers and let the fighters attack them

What do you mean here ?

If the RAF are plotted to higher than the LW escort, why should they not get the bounce ?

Several RAF Squadron leaders were in the habit of adding altitude to the "angels" given them by their controller in order to secure the higher ground. ( Been reading Bader [:)] )

Are the RAF getting good odds in these attacks ? This is something I have not been seeing.

regards Otisabuser

[steveh11Matrix]

Can't recall if it's the case in the game, but IRL 11 Group were often still climbing when they intercepted - so they were usually at an altitude disadvantage. 12 Group OTOH had the advantage of time, and often - when they did manage an intercept - were above their opponents. Although top-cover BF109's were normally higher still. [:(]

The problem 11 Group had, of course, was that if they waited to get to altitude they'd be intercepting after the bombs had been dropped. Park was against that - quite rightly, IMO.

Steve.

[Airborne82nd]

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

The problem 11 Group had, of course, was that if they waited to get to altitude they'd be intercepting after the bombs had been dropped. Park was against that - quite rightly, IMO.

Steve.

Ahh yes, the "Big Wing" debate. I usually favor Park myself. He and Dowding got screwed after the BOB, IMO.

[Hard Sarge]

Hi OB
I got to disagree (while agreeing the the main Idea)

in what 12 days of play, I have seen 3 GE bounces, my 109s are normally 6 to 8 K over top the raid (I put the Stabs higher then the Gruppens)

and as Steve says, there is no time for the GB planes to be getting to 30K+ before I cross the coast

yes, overall, I think the GB is doing well in my game, the main hassle is they won't take off and engage, I am beating them with numbers and overwelming what is sent out

and when the AI is only sending out 200-300 fighters during the day

[Nikademus]

Ah yes, the Big Wing argument. Often represented as a yay or nay type deal (Neillands for example), I liked how Collier put it by comparing No 11 and No 12 Group's tactical/geographical situation. As already mentioned, "Big Wing" tactics would work potentially well for No 12 Group because they had the distance and time to organize and gain the necessary altitude while No 11 Group couldn't really afford to take that time because if they did, the bombers would already be over their heads blasting their targets.

Bounce......

I'm a little put out by the Bounce in the game. Playing BTR, it seems to be a one stop shop tactic. According to Speedy, with the exception of some certain Zorestor type aircraft he only ever uses bounce tactics. That seems somehow wrong to me. Every tactic should have it's pro and con. Supposedly using bounce tactics will reduce your interceptions but increase your potential gains while direct attack will do the opposite. If thats fully the case then......how is it a Ger player can always get away with only using the bounce tactic? I still seem to be losing bombers left and right. I tend to get suspicious of the mechanics of any tactic when there's no need for choice.

Still trying to figure out how to get my escorts to not be bounced as much. Even at the upper end of the escort spectrum height. Do I need to set the bombers at a higher altitude?

[Speedysteve]

Hi Nik,

Yes I have ALL of my SE planes on 'bounce fighter' (except the 190F which is set to bounce bomber). The only planes I have on direct attack are the TE and the NF's.

Thats right Nik - bounce will result in fewer attacks (at least initially) since the pilot will try to get into a better position before commencing attack. Where as direct attack should result in the boy just going for it.

I know what you mean tho - it is frustrating that the German player can specifically set his boys to bounce where as the only thing the Allied player can do is to set the altitude and NOT the tactic (although in theory the high escort should result in a bounce more often!)

As mentioned before though at present you are fighting with planes that are not superior to mine. Wait and see how it goes with the Jug D, Lightning L and Mustang B. You should see better results using those at 5-9000 feet above the bombers due to greater speed and maneuverability.

As for setting your bombers at a higher altitude - it won't make any difference. The key is the altitude that the escorting fighters are at. The only fighter in the game that has it's performance affected by altitude is the P38. Anything above 18,000 feet will affect its performance IIRC. I think its 18K anyhow. My mind is fuzzy this morning after red wine last night [;)]

Regards,

Steven

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Nik
if you have the numbers, one thing you can do is stagger the alt the fighters fly at

if you fly all of your fighters too high, the planes on DA can slip in and out with out triggering an attack by your fighters, if you only plot them at 2 K above, then almost everything that comes at you will be same or higher then you are

one thing you should see, if your planes are high enough, they should be getting normal attacks on the oncomeing GE, or the GE should be getting normal attacks on your fighters

(one hassle is you can have trouble telling what is going on, your planes are at 27K, they see some planes at 25k, they drop down to attack, then the GE planes at 29k, bounce the planes that are now lower then they are, some times if you can really watch the numbers, you will see planes from 8 K to 30K, all in the same area, I am sure you have seen planes that you think are at high Alt, all of a sudden report they are attacking a balloon)

for the most part, planes with normal guns, you want to bounce, planes with Rockets, you want to Direct attack, now your heavy fighers, I think will may get some debate on, but I think they should try to get in and out before the allied fighers get a chance to interfer

which will say, the tactic the GE units have, should be more in force, if there are fighters with the bombers and you are set to bounce or direct attack fighters, then you should pretty much try and stick to attacking fighters, bounce bomber should avoid the fighters

but it don't really seem to do so, seems more random, or first thing they see