army group center question

[PenCapChew]

Since this was the most dangerous army for the initial offensive in terms of ground gained, does WITE simulate the deep armored thrusts in the first 6 weeks or so? Can you capture Minsk in one week(one game turn) as historically the case? Are the other armies slower paced, as was fortunately the case for the Russians in the first year of the war?

[PyleDriver]

Unlike WIR units have the MP's to do that. The sad fact is (as what occured) you out run supply...

[Terminus]

Good.

[siRkid]

ORIGINAL: PenCapChew
Can you capture Minsk in one week(one game turn) as historically the case?

Its not easy but yes it can be done.

[sol_invictus]

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Unlike WIR units have the MP's to do that. The sad fact is (as what occured) you out run supply...

Damn pesky supplies.[:@]

[Shupov]

Along the same lines can the Germans capture Pskov by 9 July and Smolensk by 16 July as was historically the case?

[Shupov]

Is the great Gustav 800 mm (31.5 inch) gun included in WitE?  It had a range of 23-29 miles depending on shell type and was used effectively in the siege of Sevastopol.

[Helpless]

Along the same lines can the Germans capture Pskov by 9 July and Smolensk by 16 July as was historically the case?

Yes, it is doable.

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: Shupov

Is the great Gustav 800 mm (31.5 inch) gun included in WitE?  It had a range of 23-29 miles depending on shell type and was used effectively in the siege of Sevastopol.

That's HIGHLY debatable.

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: Shupov

Is the great Gustav 800 mm (31.5 inch) gun included in WitE?  It had a range of 23-29 miles depending on shell type and was used effectively in the siege of Sevastopol.

The Gustav is not in the game. Its performance characteristics are outside the design parameters of the game.

[Shupov]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: Shupov

Is the great Gustav 800 mm (31.5 inch) gun included in WitE?  It had a range of 23-29 miles depending on shell type and was used effectively in the siege of Sevastopol.

That's HIGHLY debatable.

From Military.com -

She (Gustov) spoke first on June 5, 1942, targeting coastal batteries that had, up until that time, survived the rain of over half-a-million artillery projectiles fired at the city. After eight rounds the coastal fortifications were demolished. Gustav then turned her attention to Fort Stalin, that target was destroyed in six rounds. The next day’s encounter was the most spectacular and clearly demonstrated the gun’s tremendous power. The day’s first target was Fort Molotov, which succumbed to the gun’s shells after seven rounds. An area known as the White Cliff on Severnaya Bay was next. The Soviets had carefully and skillfully placed an ammunition depot deep in the earth and (what is even more impressive) angled the galleries so that they ran out under the bay. The ammunition would have been safe from any conventional weapon in the enemy’s arsenal, except Gustav. She fired nine shells at the target, with tiny Storch observation planes circling overhead, radioing back the results. The shells passed through 100 feet of seawater, tunneled through the seabed, and exploded in the ammunition depot. By the 17th of June, Gustav had exhausted all of her target opportunities around Sevastopol and she was dismantled and returned to Germany. There was simply nothing left for her to do.

Certainly Gustav was not an efficient use of German war resources, but I would argue it was effective in reducing the Sevastopal fortress.

[Fred98]

Or to put it another way:

Are artillery units separate units in the game? Or instead, is artillery included in the attack value of a unit?

-

[Helpless]

Are artillery units separate units in the game?

Yes, up from divisional level.

Or instead, is artillery included in the attack value of a unit?

Yes, if it is got committed to the battle by HQ.

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: Shupov

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: Shupov

Is the great Gustav 800 mm (31.5 inch) gun included in WitE?  It had a range of 23-29 miles depending on shell type and was used effectively in the siege of Sevastopol.

That's HIGHLY debatable.

From Military.com -

She (Gustov) spoke first on June 5, 1942, targeting coastal batteries that had, up until that time, survived the rain of over half-a-million artillery projectiles fired at the city. After eight rounds the coastal fortifications were demolished. Gustav then turned her attention to Fort Stalin, that target was destroyed in six rounds. The next day’s encounter was the most spectacular and clearly demonstrated the gun’s tremendous power. The day’s first target was Fort Molotov, which succumbed to the gun’s shells after seven rounds. An area known as the White Cliff on Severnaya Bay was next. The Soviets had carefully and skillfully placed an ammunition depot deep in the earth and (what is even more impressive) angled the galleries so that they ran out under the bay. The ammunition would have been safe from any conventional weapon in the enemy’s arsenal, except Gustav. She fired nine shells at the target, with tiny Storch observation planes circling overhead, radioing back the results. The shells passed through 100 feet of seawater, tunneled through the seabed, and exploded in the ammunition depot. By the 17th of June, Gustav had exhausted all of her target opportunities around Sevastopol and she was dismantled and returned to Germany. There was simply nothing left for her to do.

Certainly Gustav was not an efficient use of German war resources, but I would argue it was effective in reducing the Sevastopal fortress.

The weapon fired seven rounds at Fort Molotov, only ONE landing within 100 meters. The White Cliffs ammunition depot was NOT destroyed despite the nine rounds fired at it. And Gustav (or Dora, as it was correctly called) did not "exhaust her target opportunities" but her ammunition. The Germans had exactly 48 rounds for it, and misspent them grossly by shifting fire from target to target without actually destroying any of them. The fault lies with General Zuckertort, the main artillery commander of 11th Army.

The big guns at Sevastopol have been mythologized as fire-breathing monsters who slew all before them, but that is just that, a myth.

[ComradeP]

The Goliaths (initially with Panzer Abteilung 300) employed might actually have been more effective than most of the guns with a higher calibre than 280mm guns which employed, whose main contribution seems to have been damaging the concrete fortifications so flamethrowers could wipe the occupants out later.

The Goliath wasn't of much use against any mobile target, but a bunker isn't going anywhere.

The OKH's Chief of Artillery in the winter of 1941-1942 called Dora "an extraordinary work of art, but useless". I can't really disagree with him.

[Zemke]

ORIGINAL: Shupov

Along the same lines can the Germans capture Pskov by 9 July and Smolensk by 16 July as was historically the case?

I hope you can, the paralized command and control of Western Front and others of the Soviet Army should count for something at the start, allowing the Germans to "dance" around most opposition and a speedy advance.

I know most everyone interested in this game is some sort of "Eastern Front" fanboy, for example in college we had a sheet of plywood as a table and played Fire in the East for a year....that was a long time ago. Thank God for computers!