Axis air kills T1

[TheLysander]

I would really like to know how players rack up soviet air kills above 4,000. For example i followed dinglir's T1 air walkthrough, it is thorough and useful. Yet i dont get the same amount of kills as he seems to get. Especially with regards the romanian airforce. Is there something i am doing wrong. I'd really like to understand why my planes are not wiping the floor like everyone else's [&:].

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: TheLysander
Especially with regards the romanian airforce.

The latest version has a very big nerf to Rumanian tac bombers compared to the game version Dinglir played in those AARs so you almost certainly will get far less from that.

[chaos45]

ummmm your wrong Telemecus...look at Beenders recent games- scoring over 6-7k+ soviet planes T1 and this is under newest patch.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

ummmm your wrong Telemecus...look at Beenders recent games- scoring over 6-7k+ soviet planes T1 and this is under newest patch.

I got 11k under the first patch [:D]

I still have no problem getting over 6k on turn 1, but the nerf to the Rumanian tac bombers is very clear to those who play both versions as well as being documented. Just think, beender could have got so much more with the old Rumanian tac bombers [:)]

[SparkleyTits]

Tele is right in the case of the the Rumanians they are not as effective as they used to be on turn 1 but you can still get high numbers regardless

It takes a tonne of time and thought out planning, almost nothing can be bombed before transfering to thought out empty airfields ahead of time and you have to think of the air war and ground war as an intertwined number of actions by creating holes you plan for on the ground and then pushing empty airfields up with enough ammo and fuel to transfers planes onto them

The most I have ever gotten is over 6.1k and as Chaos stated there are much higher numbers to be hit than that!
Jing we are looking at you [:D]

[Saulust]

The Roumanian tactical bombers (IAR38/9s) were always pretty crap at racking up airframe kill totals in airbase bombing IME anyway... still use them anyway however not just on their own though. I always augment them or perhaps the other way around make sure to use them with bombers from the Roumanian 2nd Airbase, at least the 2 Potez units against the near 3 Southern Soviet air bases against Roumania. I accept that they don't account for much in themselves, although hopefully just by increasing numbers contributes some factoring into the tally of the airfield bombing mission but all the same if not, then still every bit extra even minuscule addition they do helps!

[SparkleyTits]

The Rums being nerfed was a little while ago though I thought not most recent update?

[Telemecus]

Yes the nerf was a few patches ago, and on the original version they were very bad. But there was a period were they were absolute killers on a par with your stukas. In terms of realism this was incorrect and so for role playing what actually could have happened in world war two it is perhaps closer to what it should be. But at least when Dinglir was doing AARs I believe it was when the Rumanian tac bombers were incredibly powerful.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Nerf was in 1.11.01 IIRC

[beender]

A successful air raid campaign (or any airwar operation for that matter) relies exclusively on the use of the so-called Kabuki tactics, which I suppose was invented by Telemecus. So make sure you know that trick is the most important thing.

Alright let me share some specific ideas on T1 air raid.

-- All Soviet airbases west of X=70 or so can and should be cleared with three airbases filled with appropriate number of Stukas. It takes some pondering to find the right place to deploy them but believe me it's not all that difficult to locate. Just like a center of gravity. Remember to use staging bases which you will need. Also, some Soviet airbases starting at "inconvenient" places can be "herded" to where you want them[:D]

-- So this alone will get you like 4,000+ kills. Then it's time to use level bombers. He111 is especially effective at airfield bombing and JU88 is also OK on T1 where interception is few. You will want to deploy them as forward as possible, but also with enough fuels and ammo! This is more tricky than it appears and will require some planning and improvement.

-- There is a choice to be made in selecting level bomber targets, because unlike in the case of divebombers, here you can't wipe out everything. Normally I clear fighters first, so that further air raid need not (and actually cannot) be escorted by BF109s. Also, I find Soviet bombers less a threat in later games than fighters.

-- Romanian airforce nerf is annoying but does not have so much impact IMO. After all, those Soviet airbase are pretty close to border and thus can be dealt with by German bombers at the cost of only one or two later long-range bombing runs.

Having said all these, let me assure you that such air loss number obtained on T1 has little practical significance in terms of deciding the result of the game, once you get over 5000 or 6000. It's still fun though to see how high you can get, like a mini-game in itself[:'(]

[thedoctorking]

Most of the stuff you will blow up on turn 1 will be pretty much useless to the Soviets going forward. There are a bunch of Mig-3 airframes where you can get at them, and you can do a little bit to long-range bombers in some spots. But most of the air power that you will be facing in the future is not where you can get at it.

[TheLysander]

Thanks for replies, all very heLPful and informative. I feel like the air war is a vastly under discussed topic and i believe that in order to better myself as a player i need to understand the true significance of air power in wite.

[AlexSF]

Aahaha, I see you are not such the pro player I was afraid you were in our game. Thank God ! Stil you destroyed at least 3600 airframes on turn 1 if I remember well...
I just posted a thread ranting about the huge mess of the Soviet Airforce !

[Jondalar]

The IAR38 is a recon aircraft but not a bomber (only IAR37 and IAR39 are tactical bombers) though according to its description it should be a light bomber. Possibly a bug.

[Telemecus]

Not a bug - it is the result of data research. Many aircraft were converted to use as recon aircraft including tactical bombers and fighters - even though the designation remained as a light bomber group it was equipped and ran recon missions. If you have better data sources that say otherwise this could be a data correction. But it has been raised before and confirmed as WAD.

[56ajax]

Confuses the hell out of me. Historical accuracy gone a step too far.

[Denniss]

These IAR aircraft are hard to classify as they did both. The -38 was rather special with their BMW engines so they may have been pulled from light bombing duties and concentrated in recon units.

[thedoctorking]

True story: my mom was a private in the Women's Army Corps in World War 2. She was in the Ordnance Department of 15th Air Force and was responsible for keeping track of aircraft engines and parts and making sure squadrons got enough engines to do their jobs. She would have cared about the difference between BMW and Rolls Royce engines.

[Hanny]

https://www.worldwar2.ro/organizare/?article=23

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Hanny
https://www.worldwar2.ro/organizare/?article=23

Clearly says the IAR38 were designated as "Observation Flotilla" so perhaps the groups should be renamed from light bomber to that. So that would be a data correction?