TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign

[thedoctorking]

Casualties this turn were 23,417 Axis to 476,805 Soviet. 69 Soviet units were destroyed, of which 48 were divisions. Air losses were 43 to 160 – 21 of my fighters were destroyed, which is a discouraging stat since I only get like 40 a turn. TOE shows 3.35 million Germans plus 682,000 Romanians versus 2.98 million Soviets.

Here's the Romanian front, not much excitement down here. I'll only post shots from here in the future if something exciting happens. Same with the Finns when they come in.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
About two-thirds of the way through the turn, I realized that last turn I had done the thing where you set your high command HQ to support level 9 and set everybody else to 0, allowing support units to move up the chain of command so you can reassign them freely. You are supposed to then do the reassignment at the beginning of the turn. But I forgot. Didn’t seem to reduce the combat effectiveness of my guys, though.

You probably know my comment already that is a good thing - leave them all in OKH. [:)]
Only assign them down if you need them just before you need them. My habit is to NOT assign them down at the start fo the turn, but just before I click to do any attack THEN decide whether to assign them down. I think it is the best habit to have.

Remember SUs will only be committed to battle by an HQ if they are within 5 hexes of a deliberate attack, or 5 hexes of a hasty attack AND the HQ has not moved. For Axis motorised units in the summer of 1941 this will virtually never be the case and even for infantry only occasionally. I am guessing this is why you saw little difference - because if you assign them down they will almost all of the time not be there.

By contrast the total collection of Axis SUs is equivalent to about 2 German field armies - by not moving them overground in corps and army HQs you save an enormous amount in damaged vehicles. And by keeping them in OKH which is presumably on a rail hex or closer to one, you are also saving enormous amounts of damaged vehicles in the logistics phase too.

I would dare say not assigning down all SUs but only a few when you can actually use them is less micromanagement.

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
In our Leningrad scenario, Isaac kept forces on the Estonian islands, forcing me to send a security division to hold them. We’ll see if he tries that again.

If, as the picture indicatess, he is keeping a staging base on the island it can be quite a cunning move. It means for instance his bombers could attack the Heinkel bomber factory at Rostock which is not well defended by the fighters frozen in bases in Germany. If Leningrad falls the islands will become isolated, but would still take turns to auto-surrender - so the staging base could be kept there for longer before being displaced. And if you try to force your way in, apart from the diversion of resources, they can probably hold on until you could capture Leningrad anyway. Most likely he will evacuate just before Leningrad falls.

Do I recognise that 4th panzer group line of advance from another game recently?

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
In this sector, I intend to advance until I reach the Soviet main line of resistance, then do HQ buildups for all of 1st PG and try for a big pocket.

In the first turns when motorised can get fuel from a shorter line to Rumania, and some are still full having been frozen to turn 2, I usually find you can get away with not doing HQBUs there.

[thedoctorking]

My only concern with assigning SU's downwards at the moment of attack is that you cannot then assign them directly to units. I'm thinking that most German armored divisions should have some SU attached directly, and infantry divisions assaulting fortified positions should have pioneers and maybe StuG/Flamm tanks.

Or does the (generally) high initiative levels of German leaders mean that direct assignment of SU's is unnecessary? I'd think that especially for tanks in a mobile situation, this is about the only way to make sure the SU's are active in their battles.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

My only concern with assigning SU's downwards at the moment of attack is that you cannot then assign them directly to units. I'm thinking that most German armored divisions should have some SU attached directly, and infantry divisions assaulting fortified positions should have pioneers and maybe StuG/Flamm tanks.

At least in my games it is fine to directly assign them then too? Even if they are in OKH you can directly assign it to a unit just before a battle.

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
I'd think that especially for tanks in a mobile situation, this is about the only way to make sure the SU's are active in their battles.

Particularly for Axis in 1941 it may be the only way for SUs to help tanks so this would be correct. I would just say leave your options open until you are sure you will need them just before a battle - and only then directly assign them. There is a points cost to unassigning them later as well as the logistics cost so long as you leave them directly assigned - so that needs to be part of your judgement there.

[ICalli]

SOV turn 2 actually ended up being easier than turn 1. About half my units (to their detriment in later turns) screened while the other half retreated. Trying to keep a vision on what my final ideal organization will look like as I drive my divisions East. Right now, my fronts look like a rainbow from different commands.

Do other SOV players make an attempt to have units fall back into established positions based on ideal FRONT-ARMY-CORPS plans? This seems to be more efficient than using APs to change HQs but has been extremely difficult for me.

Designated a couple cities as "hero cities". Hopefully TheDr. engages them appropriately so I don't feel the opportunity cost of having those units elsewhere. I read a few AARs regarding forward defense of Leningrad and stuffed some extra units in there. I get the sense that if the GER side wants to focus extra PZRs in a line of advance, the SOVs can do little to stop them.

I see some posts giving TheDr advice. I am sure he will put it to immediate action pushing the helpless SOVs deeper into the dirt. There is a definite experience mismatch between us so any advice in my direction would be greatly appreciated! In a lot of cases, I lack the experience to even know where perspective could be used so please ask questions.

Thanks!

[thedoctorking]

On SU allocation: I make sure the Panzer Corps HQs are right up front with their units at the beginning of the turn. Then, I assign them artillery and don't move them. The motorized units shooting their way through the lines can benefit from SU support for five hexes, usually taking them through the Soviet defenses. The down side is that the Soviet player can tell where your attack is coming if he can see the Panzer Corps HQ's.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

On SU allocation: I make sure the Panzer Corps HQs are right up front with their units at the beginning of the turn. Then, I assign them artillery and don't move them. The motorized units shooting their way through the lines can benefit from SU support for five hexes, usually taking them through the Soviet defenses. The down side is that the Soviet player can tell where your attack is coming if he can see the Panzer Corps HQ's.

Many Soviets don't recon. If they do they don't do many sorties. So put your units in light woods or better if you can and the Soviets aren't going to be able to tell SH*T. They will get a grey counter in light woods or better. There your problem solved.

[ICalli]

I haven't found much success with SOV 1941 recon. Regardless of how many sorties I fly, I haven't been able to get more than an indication that a unit is in woods/town. I would think that flying 25 missions would tell some detail, IE are there tanks in this town?

[Telemecus]

worth reading the rules on maximum detection rates by air in the manual

5 for airbases
4 for other units in clear
2 for other units in other terrain near your ground units
1 otherwise

bottom line no matter how many sorties you fly your air will not give you more detail about a unit in town/woods

And unlike the Axis - you do not have or produce a lot of recon planes.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: ICalli

I haven't found much success with SOV 1941 recon. Regardless of how many sorties I fly, I haven't been able to get more than an indication that a unit is in woods/town. I would think that flying 25 missions would tell some detail, IE are there tanks in this town?

Exactly. You only need to make a few flights over the lines to give you the counters in the area and you are done. Basically, you will know the deposition of the German troops but not what they are. Unfortunately, the game engine treats Soviet reconnaissance as imbeciles who could not tell a cow in a pasture from a tank.

On the other hand, the Germans can get some pretty darn good intel with their reconnaissance flights.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: ICalli

I haven't found much success with SOV 1941 recon. Regardless of how many sorties I fly, I haven't been able to get more than an indication that a unit is in woods/town. I would think that flying 25 missions would tell some detail, IE are there tanks in this town?

Exactly. You only need to make a few flights over the lines to give you the counters in the area and you are done. Basically, you will know the deposition of the German troops but not what they are. Unfortunately, the game engine treats Soviet reconnaissance as imbeciles who could not tell a cow in a pasture from a tank.

On the other hand, the Germans can get some pretty darn good intel with their reconnaissance flights.

Oh! Be prepared to face grave loses to the Recon if they do fly. Germans interceptors eat Soviet recon flights up like a kid licking a lollipop trying to get to the chewy center.

[ICalli]

Thanks for the redirect. I should have spotted this.

Unfortunately, trying to obtain info chewed up a lot of recon planes unnecessarily.

I am still learning things about the game every turn. Probably similar to the on-the-fly lessons learned by the Soviets during Barbarossa

[thedoctorking]

Turn 3 was time-consuming, but pretty uneventful. In the north, My armor had very low movement factors – like 15-20 – so I basically sat still and waiting for supplies and support to roll up. I did bring the 3rd Panzer Group from Army Group Center up into position for an intended attack to the east of Pskov. The Russian defenses of the gap between Lakes Piepus and Pskov appears strong, so we are probably not going that way. At least I attracted two divisions by moving in their direction. There are still plenty of Soviet troops to the north in Estonia, who will be entirely unaffected for several turns to come. We tried some bombing behind his lines but got handed a bloody nose – 31 bombers shot down! Russian air defenses are strong in the northern sector.

[thedoctorking]

Army Group Center was almost entirely involved with moving to contact. We did take Minsk from the relatively small garrison he left there. Otherwise, there was a bit of fighting along the Berezina as I sought to cut off a few divisions there. I got one armored division pocketed and it will be trivial for him to reopen that pocket if he wishes. Hopefully, though, that will mean that I can pocket more guys next turn. Second Army came in, and was duly assigned to cover the southern flank of the Army Group in the marshes. Looks right now like there are no Russians in there at all, meaning that my advance on Gomel will be uneventful.

[thedoctorking]

In the south, we finished off all but one NKVD regiment of the Lvov pocket and began our advance to the east. There were a few tank divisions southeast of Rovno that I thought I could cut off, but in the end I didn’t have enough movement points.

We have obviously not yet reached the Soviet main line of resistance. I find the idea of leaving armored divisions to slow us up interesting. They have impressive defense strengths, but once driven from their positions, they are vulnerable. If I can cut them off and destroy them, the Russian counter-attacks later will lose considerable force.

Ground losses were 10,467 Axis to 73,839 Soviet, light but gratifying. Air losses were 56 Axis to 156 Soviet, not so good, especially since only about 30 of the Soviet losses were first line aircraft, and 32 of my losses were Ju88’s. TOE totals are 3.4 million Germans to 3.05 million Soviets.

[ICalli]

Turn three opened with me (re)reading some AARs about the turn and run tactic in the Ukraine. I ended up being unable to bust some pretty nasty encirclements on SW Front which will probably result in losing most of the divisions assigned there. I had some misconceptions regarding the range of GER Motorized forces. Definitely shows my inexperience of never playing on the GER side.

I had to review the manual and forums regarding NKVD auto-disbanding. I didn't realize this would happen and it created a lot of holes in areas I had deployed them. Do other players disband FORT regions that are in danger? I did in one location but dont know if it is worth the scant AP.

I am interested in the extra PZR units heading towards Leningrad. TheDr and I slugged it out up that way in the Leningrad scenario and I am not opposed to improving on my positions with the lessons I have learned. We will see if he wants to go head to head again or attempt to drive around.

This is the 1ST turn I can move any factories. The last comprehensive AAR/War Room info on factory evacuation is years (and many versions) behind and dont seem to apply in a lot of cases. I spent a lot of time clicking through all the frontline cities to prioritize my precious strategic move points. I found myself questioning moving the factories that I did. The initial lower production numbers will hurt now and I am concerned about making it to 1942.

Unit hierarchy and organization continues to eat up a majority of my APs. Still looks like a color palette mess and appears to result in worse combat results when differing HQ units are stacked.Z

Made 2x heroic attacks. Cant quite say we are ready for the road to Berlin yet.

[SparkleyTits]

I would say disbanding forts is a luxury decided on your current needs or enemies aggresion/pressure

If you have the spare AP and do not need to rush Zhukov into a new army HQ to firefight or you don't need to set up your logistics for a front pronto and ahead of an Axis lunge for example then the extra little boost in guns and manpower is always nice to put in the bank but ultimately it is a small amount and if you you are being pressured to keep up with Axis or would prefer to play it safe then just leave them it certainly will not break the Soviets back in doing so buddy but if you feel "Oh I have AP and nothing I have to spend it on right now" then disbanding them is a choice

[thedoctorking]

Turn 4 was pretty much about getting my infantry up to the front. In Army Group North, I did a limited attack south of Pskov, hoping to cut off an armored division strongpoint but not quite getting him. He’ll have to withdraw, anyway. I did an HQBU for one tank corps (von Manstein’s). They will either support an attack against Pskov next turn or help push around the northern end of Lake Piepus, depending on what Isaac sends to the Narva region. My goal is to pocket that big pile of guys around Pskov, though I probably won’t be able to do it next turn. The 3rd Panzer Group guys at the southern end of the pocket are short on fuel and might have to sit still to build up movement points.
I tried strategic bombing against Osinovets now that my fighers are within range. My bombers didn’t suffer any dramatic losses (I think 5 or 6 overall) but also didn’t do much damage: 4%.

[thedoctorking]

In the Army Group Center region, we advanced a few hexes against minimal resistance. I wonder if Isaac has figured out that I’m not going this way and has moved reserves elsewhere. I’m not seeing any defenders on the other side of the Dnepr, and precious little on the land bridge. If this goes on, I may start sending armor this way for a push across the land bridge by turn 9 or 10.

[thedoctorking]

Farther south, my 1st Panzer Group guys still had a reasonable amount of fuel and so I was able to pull off a big and apparently pretty solid pocket with about 20 divisions in it west of Zhitomir. Again, there are apparently few Russian units east of me. As always with the Germans, though, in the early going it is logistics rather than the Russian defenders that holds you back.