Pavlov's House - NOSB (Sov) vs. Pitaman (Axis)

[NotOneStepBack]

Turn 13

North:

Herding cats here with the Finnish.




Center:

Smaller pocket breakthrough happens here in center-south, not much I can do about this. Tula will be evacuated now ASAP.




South:

Static here this turn. Rostov was fully railed out.

[NotOneStepBack]

Turn 14

Disaster.

Pita breaks through all lines and nabs one hex of Moscow. This is still playing out, but it's gonna be .... interesting.

Here I was trying to hold the center at all costs and this happens!!!

[ericv]

You are doing great : you didn't lose Kharkov on turn 5, in fact, it looks as though you still occupy it!

[NotOneStepBack]

ORIGINAL: ericv

You are doing great : you didn't lose Kharkov on turn 5, in fact, it looks as though you still occupy it!

Moscow > Kharkov

I've lost more industry here than I wanted to. Pita is still in control

[sillyflower]

'Doing great' is not a phrase I would use especially as random weather favours the Russians only in the 1st 17 turns, then it's a help to the Axis.

It's hard to tell as your screenie doesn't show combats or forts, but you didn't seem to have much in his way and at least 1 Moscow hex without any troops in it [:-]

Brian G needs to be your role model.

[M60A3TTS]

If you look at turn 8, all he had defending in Leningrad itself was a fortified zone.

[NotOneStepBack]

Yeah, it's my mistake. I kept putting all the big CV units up against his panzers, once he broke those it was a clear path to Moscow / Leningrad. Honestly didn't think he had the range to get there.

[NotOneStepBack]

Honestly, what's the best way to defend? When I try to hug his panzers I get pocketed, when I try a few lines of defense they are broken through, it doesn't seem to matter too much what I do in 1941

[sillyflower]

He has been learning from Pelton

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

Honestly, what's the best way to defend? When I try to hug his panzers I get pocketed, when I try a few lines of defense they are broken through, it doesn't seem to matter too much what I do in 1941

I tried a forward-ish defence vs MT as I know he hates players who run away, and got slaughtered. He's the only person who has ever beaten me though. Even with the recent changes you have to run in the south and transfer units further north.There is no magic tactic you can use. Counterattacking is now pointless IMHO unless there is a real gain because the casualty ratios have swung massively in favour of the Germans (at least in '41). Even a successful R attack means that the attacking units will be much weaker when it comes to the next G turn.

However, the G panzer units are not war-winners on their own. The inf need to do most of the hard work so delaying them and keeping just out of reach is v. important.

Survive '41 and the game now makes it much easier to survive in '42 due to free unit return and NM changes. I fear, however that you have reached the point of no return this time. Can you post losses? Troops and factories.

[NotOneStepBack]

I'll post losses when I get home, but I think I'm down to like 296 ARM and 200ish HI.

I also fear I'm at the point of no return already.

I hate to say it, but I'm starting to wonder of Germany is over-powered. And I play both sides. The russians in real life were able to mount some bit of defense in 1941, even by September - Octoberish.

[RKhan]

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

I hate to say it, but I'm starting to wonder of Germany is over-powered. And I play both sides. The russians in real life were able to mount some bit of defense in 1941, even by September - Octoberish.

Pitaman played a good game.

[charlie0311]

NOSB,

BrianG(sov) is defeating Pelton(axis) in current aar. Other ongoing games, experienced players, but not publicized (yet) seem to indicate that the balance is slightly pro-sov. Maybe more than slightly.

Such a long game needs lots of time to test.

The axis summer offensive is "manageable", fun is to figure out how. I did it (maybe??) and I'm a dope.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

NOSB,

BrianG(sov) is defeating Pelton(axis) in current aar. Other ongoing games, experienced players, but not publicized (yet) seem to indicate that the balance is slightly pro-sov. Maybe more than slightly.

Such a long game needs lots of time to test.

The axis summer offensive is "manageable", fun is to figure out how. I did it (maybe??) and I'm a dope.

This game that you reference had the mud turns at the beginning which altered the course of this game. If playing with current rules that game would be different.

[charlie0311]

Well to each his own. I suppose someone will have to beat Pelton with the following conditions, clear weather, mild blizzard, no sov bonus.

I have two games going now and can't do another. We intend to finish these games and both are in the Spring of '42 timeframe.

Oh yeah, left out, no partisan activation for summer '41.

[NotOneStepBack]

Eh, I'm no newbie, been playing this game since release, and WITW. I may have made some mistakes but nothing I thought was earth-shattering. I'm welcome to hearing anything that would've turned this out differently. I fought forward here and it crushed me, but still had reserves for the breakthroughs. The Soviets don't have the CV to stop the germans in '41.

His fake-out with Leningrad and the center at the start though really threw me off, that's why I didn't prioritize L-grad as much, so it fell early and it let him redirect his panzers to Moscow. Perhaps the true center is the North.

[charlie0311]

Ok, there are two ways.

1) The hard one, fight forward (kind of). For this you have to really, really know the axis abilities. The best players (not me) have done this, and so as the axis summer '41 unfolds they know what they can do. I *think* you have to play the axis against a pretty good sov player to learn this, playing the ai won't cut it.

2) Learn the axis logistics well enough so that you can stay out of reach or near the limit of the axis reach. Run like hell and put up with the whining and bitching about not "historical". Here you need to make a good plan for fac evac. 180HI and 270 ARM is enough, don't "really" need the VEH and quite a lot of the other. I know there is a consensus for 200/300 HI/ARM, my opinion, from my experience would say at least somewhat less. You can lose Leningrad, Moscow, Rostov, and Voronezh and still have enough manpower.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

Eh, I'm no newbie, been playing this game since release, and WITW. I may have made some mistakes but nothing I thought was earth-shattering. I'm welcome to hearing anything that would've turned this out differently. I fought forward here and it crushed me, but still had reserves for the breakthroughs. The Soviets don't have the CV to stop the germans in '41.

His fake-out with Leningrad and the center at the start though really threw me off, that's why I didn't prioritize L-grad as much, so it fell early and it let him redirect his panzers to Moscow. Perhaps the true center is the North.

Apologies, but your defense of Leningrad was severely lacking. If you make a half-hearted attempt to defend Leningrad, Moscow is at great risk as it gives the Axis player an early opportunity to shift more troops to the center sooner.



What is this airbase defense line on the Luga? You do know that they just displace when next to an enemy unit?

You have Pavlovo with a defense value of 48 and Leningrad is 5?

I only count about 7 visible ground combat units of the Northern Front. That's not even an army's worth. You have to respect the fact that even the 2 panzer corps of PG 4 are going to blow through what little opposition you put in his way. By turn 4 at the very latest, starting at Leningrad itself, you should have had 3 combat units there, and another 3 in the hexes directly east of Leningrad, and another 3 east of that. Each unit should have had a base CV of at least 2 or 3. And that is one of your last lines of defense. Three full Soviet armies should be operating in that area even without an extra German panzer corps.

[NotOneStepBack]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

Eh, I'm no newbie, been playing this game since release, and WITW. I may have made some mistakes but nothing I thought was earth-shattering. I'm welcome to hearing anything that would've turned this out differently. I fought forward here and it crushed me, but still had reserves for the breakthroughs. The Soviets don't have the CV to stop the germans in '41.

His fake-out with Leningrad and the center at the start though really threw me off, that's why I didn't prioritize L-grad as much, so it fell early and it let him redirect his panzers to Moscow. Perhaps the true center is the North.

Apologies, but your defense of Leningrad was severely lacking. If you make a half-hearted attempt to defend Leningrad, Moscow is at great risk as it gives the Axis player an early opportunity to shift more troops to the center sooner.



What is this airbase defense line on the Luga? You do know that they just displace when next to an enemy unit?

You have Pavlovo with a defense value of 48 and Leningrad is 5?

I only count about 7 visible ground combat units of the Northern Front. That's not even an army's worth. You have to respect the fact that even the 2 panzer corps of PG 4 are going to blow through what little opposition you put in his way. By turn 4 at the very latest, starting at Leningrad itself, you should have had 3 combat units there, and another 3 in the hexes directly east of Leningrad, and another 3 east of that. Each unit should have had a base CV of at least 2 or 3. And that is one of your last lines of defense. Three full Soviet armies should be operating in that area even without an extra German panzer corps.

This picture is before any moves.

I know how airbases work, they were set up that way to appear to be combat units if he reconned. He totally faked me out, I figured his units were going for the center, I didn't defend Lgrad enough.

I was trying to limit railing of units as much as I could too so save industry, most were committed to the Smolensk area.

[NotOneStepBack]

Minor update, just got to Mud, I still hold Moscow, but who knows for how long!