1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet), v1.12.0x

[EwaldvonKleist]

Kudos for starting and AAR to test the new version. Good luck and quick progress.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 2 Play Notes part A

Event Log has a couple small new sections. Rail is down near the bottom, listed along with other resources. I show 170253 On Hand, 179566 Need, 153227 Free, 85%. Rail Cap for moving units starts at 20905. 36k Armaments produced, 19k used.

F11 map report shows some scouting, he looked for AGN and AGC mobile unit and air concentrations. There were no ground battles, just some interdicts on retreating Soviet units. No Axis units isolated, no Soviet pockets opened. No rail line problems.

I’ll wait a bit to actually move them, but first rail priority is XIV PzK near Warsaw, then as many of 94/96/98 ID at west edge of map as I can.

A quick peek at CmdRpt shows Air Groups looking all right. Ten ftr units at 20% fatigue or higher - seven of the ten are Stab schwarms. Costs of my interdicts. Looking at interdiction air battles, I lost about 10 planes (shot down 70 or so) and killed ~400 men plus a few guns and afvs.

Soviet total losses as my turn begins are considerably higher in v1.12 beta compared to V1.11. Attrition alone was 115k; added to T1 losses that means GamerDad is already down 492k men before I do anything in T2. By the end of my turn, German OOB may be 200k higher than Soviet. Fixes to the Morale and Exp gains for low quality troops better add up fast or GamerDad is going to have a really rough time. Here's the starting casualty count before the Wehrmacht goes to work:

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 2 Play Notes part B

3P air base was cut down to reasonable numbers; everything else was pretty good. 15 AB gets three He111 (KG.4) from reserve, since most of their other bombers withdraw on T11. Recon finds most of the Riga ‘conga line’ of routed units still disordered, and moving towards Narva. The other clump that ran into the Pripyat is moving toward Zhitomir/Kiev. Enemy airbases are all pulled way back. Some behind Mogilev might be potential targets, but mostly I’ll be dropping bombs on troops it looks like. With Ground Support mostly turned off, I reduce pockets.

One isolated unit routed out of the Lvov pocket instead of surrendering. Don’t think that’s supposed to happen? Checking forums shows it is likely due to changes in routing rules, with tweaks coming in 12.02.

Von Rundstedt almost has an apoplectic fit when he is told that intercepted radio messages overheard General Vlasov directing the defense of Lvov itself. There was no series of battles this time, as an entire corps swamped the defending 81 Motorized in a single day. Vlasov’s voice was heard on radio the next day from the new location of his 4th Mech Corps headquarters, however - it was the only unit to retreat in a functional state from the doomed pocket.

Two more routed units instead of surrenders in the Kovel pocket. Roughly 80k more Soviet losses from Lvov and Kovel pockets. Another 110k surrender around Bialystok and Lida. Two Inf Corps (V and XII) get most of the way to Minsk.

AGS looks all right. GamerDad has big stacks on the Goryn river. I resisted the urge to exploit panzers and try for a small encirclement E of Rovno. I’ve punched a small hole there but didn’t feed all my panzers in. I’ve settled for a 4-sides pin on his best stack, and six mobile divs can punch and exploit next turn. 48 PzK took Tarnopol and will have good options next turn. 14 PzK took Chernovtsy and the units railed down are unloaded. Two Russian MtnDiv and two regiments are surrounded in the Carpathians. Scrolling around, that’s the only pocket created this turn.

Here's the results around Kovel and Rovno.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 2 Play Notes part C

16th PzD is ordered south at top speed to cut off any more stragglers from the Hungarian border. They capture both Stanislav and Chernovtsy in a lightning advance. The rest of the 14th PzK rails south to NE Rumania. That uses most of the trains available, and only one infantry division can be hauled forward this week. Three more are forced to march east, but they stage a brave parade through Potsdam. So, the rail unit transport limit might be a little less in this beta (and according to turn log stats, rail only meets 85% of my supply needs) but seems generally OK.

Below you can see 14 PzKorp reunited near the north Rumanian border. A couple panzers are hiding under Rumanian counters, but all are there.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 2 Play Notes part D

Another HQ reassignment glitch popped up. This one I was able to isolate a bit, thanks to move undo. Trying to move a PzD between 57th and 24th PzK. If 17th PzD has 16 MP left, New HQ popup has normal choices. If it moves one hex further, at 14 MP left New HQ popup is blank. Another bug being fixed by Morvael according to forums. Then I had to choose whether 17th PzD jumped across the Dnepr at Orsha, or push up towards Vitebsk. I chose the latter, as a Dnepr crossing might have gotten 2 or 3 of my divisions cut off during the Soviet turn. My limes are still mixed with the blues on the map, but at least everything is in HQ radius.

You can see the Smolensk land bridge area in the below shot. My FBD can be seen on the left by Vilnius; actual railhead is by Kaunas.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 2 Play Notes part E

Now I'm going to show you another screenshot of the same map area, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Look at how many units are isolated. Note that the supply problems did not become fully clear to me for two more turns, as you'll read in my Turn 3 and Turn 4 reports. The isolation limits that can be seen below are due to supply changes, and a 12.02 bug that Morvael plans to fix soon. For anyone who is playing the attacker in a 12.02 game right now, BE CAREFUL with unit distance from railhead!!! Use mouse to hover over hexes and see Off Rail Range - anything over 25 hexes is nicht gut.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 2 Play Notes part F

AGN didn't have much in the way of excitement, just units fanning across the Baltic States to capture territory and chase stragglers. Screenshot below. Over on the left, you can see Ventspils, the last port in Courland. The Soviets disbanded that Fort to save the guns, so infantry took it without a fight. One infantry division will need to track down the last straggler that is probably up there next turn. All my panzer units spent the turn using ZOC to take control of as much as they possible could. Next turn those will be all Axis hexes, and the infantry will move up unhindered.

After I'm done with ground unit movement, I look at the Luftwaffe across the map. Air units do ground attack with most of their remaining sorties. Most Soviet air bases are beyond Stuka range so I concentrate on pounding vulnerable stacks and units in open terrain. I don’t drain air units like last turn. Most have used 20-30% of air miles when I let them rest. Should allow for a little more recovery, plus more interdiction during Soviet turn. Air bases are moved pretty far forward, 10-15 hexes away from T2 rail heads. Previously I haven’t pushed air bases this far forward; seems to help so far. DtHQ in CmdRpt is still a bit messy.

I’m still not sure exactly what that blank popup when reassigning HQ is caused by, since I attached two SEC units with 0 MP up to OKH with no issues at the end of this turn. [This is fixed or at least mostly fixed now according to forums]

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 2 Play Notes part G

30 hexes to Moscow

Total losses at end of Axis Turn 2: Axis 24845 men, 355 gun, 272 afv, 18 spac. Soviet 814126 men, 12089 gun, 6039 afv, 1866 spac
Net gain of about 2300 vehicles this turn from lost in combat and captures.
Air losses: Axis 59 (this turn), 91 Total. Soviet 352 (this turn), 4976 Total. Fighters are the only type where my losses came close to new production.
Destroyed units: 86 this turn. Four HQ shattered (6 and 10 army, 6th Cav and 5th AB corps), 5 tank, 5 mot, 18 rifle, 3 cav divisions.

With the HQ shatters, losses are definitely higher than previous versions. The adjusted yearly manpower totals in this beta should allay that a bit, but in older versions I generally saw about 200k-250k Soviet casualties a turn during summer 41. HQ captures are likely to be rarer now as the front stabilizes, but this is still definitely a new meta that bears watching. Casualties will definitely drop on T3 as I don’t have any big pockets to remove.

[17Oct2019, after turn was done]: Forum posts have alerted me that there are still some supply bugs in 12.02. To keep units from being isolated, all units will need to be in range of HQ or railhead, and HQ will need to be within 25 hexes/100mp of existing railheads. Logistic phase happens before rail conversion, so supply path traces have to be calculated back to Axis Rail hexes, not the ones at 99% after FBD conversion. I also need to be cautious with panzer units, as the new retreat rules allow surrenders of units that formerly would simply have retreated. There may still be bugs hiding in the battle results as well, though it looks like Morvael has been fixing those as they come up.

I compared loss totals at the end of Axis Turn 2 from our aborted v1.11.03 game to the current v1.12.02 results. Soviet losses are definitely higher in v1.12 by 15-30% depending on category. Soviet manpower and gun losses stand out the most: 814k vs. 624k men, and 12.1k vs. 9.0k guns. This isn’t necessarily broken or a bug, but might be. I’ll continue to monitor. I didn’t realize the delta was as big as this. Extra manpower for Soviets in 1941, along with larger morale and experience gains for rebuilt units, should balance things out to some degree as turns progress. Armament shortages on the Soviet side may be an unforeseen side effect.

[chaos45]

3000 more gun losses will be the big hit, as it will make the soviet armaments starvation last a lot longer. I mentioned this when they launched the new patch, but more games need to be played to see how it plays out. Overall the new HQ change will add a lot of new soviet losses....even in 1942 with good german play, as Soviets have to keep army HQs within 5 hexes of the front and encirclements can usually bag areas that large even in 1942. So long term---about the first 2 years of the war this is a decently drastic increase in soviet losses most likely.

[Shalkai]

Thanks, chaos45 - good info. I’m obviously not seeing the Soviet side of things in this game, though I intend to play Soviets in my next PVP game whenever that might be. These extra losses might zero out the Soviet armaments stock a month earlier, and extend the shortage months longer in 1942. This particular game is currently in Turn 8 (I’m writing AAR with about a five turn delay) and yes, I’m still bagging an army HQ every turn or two.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part A

Soviet T2 is done, and at first glance it looks like GamerDad is still falling back and conserving forces. AGN and AGC panzers are mostly low on fuel; two corps HQs were one hex too far from railhead so their divs are really low on gas. I don’t mind too much since my units got so far last turn. AGS panzers are in better shape, and most mobile divs have 35-40 MP. Overextending is definitely an error on my part - my understanding was that supply happened after rail conversion, but that’s not the case as I found out from forums. I need to keep all HQ within range of 100% converted rail.

I have prep work to do before scouting flights. From what little I can see before reconnaissance is done, GamerDad's defensive lines are probably about 3-6 hexes behind last turn’s positions. AGS should have a chance to make a pocket around Proskurov. I expect AGC and AGN are going to be mostly consolidation this turn.

A very quiet Soviet Turn 2 according to logs and reports. About 30 interdiction attacks while he pulled back are it for battle reports. No recons, no attacks even by surrounded units, minimal attrition losses. 80% or so of my interdictions caused MP losses so I’ll leave air settings as they are. The trickle of plane and ground unit losses caused is nice, and keeping 10-15 units from getting to their preferred destination is nicer.

My air units are in nice shape. Only a dozen or so with fatigue over 15%. About a dozen others have high damaged totals (mostly tac and ftr, the cost of my interdicts). Some superfluous recon with low exp/morale and one beat up fighter Stab are sent to reserve to recover/train. Ground units are also in good shape. A few INF below 75 morale, a few Panzer below 85% ToE.

Looking at ToE, for 36 AP I could move 2nd Army from AGC to AGN, which would almost get AGC out of HQ overload. I may do that later, depending on how important HQBU actions might be.

A-HA! New supply rules and path changes are now clearer. The light dawned when I looked for a good spot to move an HQ to. First hex, off rail MP: 26 off rail range:18. Adjacent hex, off rail MP: 26 off rail range 23. Which means that game will select a worse supply path, over the 20 hex barrier, and cripple supply deliveries. If it was me, I’d add a couple lines of code so it looked for lowest MP path of range 25 or under.

The Soviets have abandoned Vitebsk; the defensive line is about another 4 hexes east. AGN infantry streams forward, while panzers advance slightly to claim more territory but don’t get into any battles. AGC is the same story. With the Soviet pullback, both AGN and AGC advances are limited by supply reach, not enemy defenses. From what I can see of fort levels, Soviet entrenchment progress is better in this beta - I’m glad to see this. V1.11 fortification increases seemed way too slow to me.

Switching south, I move some SUs from Rumanian High Command to 3rd and 4th Rumanian Armies. A little combat in Ukraine but not much. Most of the screen units around Proskurov were just fort.zones Two RDs are isolated by panzers in Proskurov itself. III Panzer Corps pushes into the land bridge between Zhitomir and Vinnitsa. Axis forces advance the front line up to a hundred miles in the northern Ukraine.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part B

Recon flights show Fort3 hexes adjacent to Odessa. Taking the port is going to be REALLY hard I suspect. On the plus side, the Soviets have given up a lot of land and Axis forces are 60% of the distance to Kiev and the Dnepr river on turn 3.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part C

Army Group North started the turn scratching their heads and wondering 'Which way did they go?' Spotter pilots find some of them east of Pskov, a few others heading toward Narva. I had to decide which way to focus on. As you can see on the map, I chose Pskov. Panzer units could have gone towards Tallinn, but the Gulf of Finland coast has little strategic value. I want railhead to be advancing east or northeast, not north. Panzers driven up that way would be quickly low on fuel, plus facing nasty defensive terrain. Tallinn can wait a couple turns until some infantry can leg it there.

Pskov, on the other hand, unlocks Novgorod, which in turn unlocks all the possible ways to take or isolate Leningrad. Accordingly, most of my panzers end up in the Pskov region, even if they did some exploring on roundabout drives to capture territory. Once I get close to Pskov, further recon detects only a few defenders. There might be more I can't see, but that's something for next turn.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part D

AGN and AGS are done, so back to the middle. Neither of those Army Groups needed a HQBU so I can use my AP for one BU and reassign 2nd Army, or two BUs. Now that I know what the supply path count is doing, I won’t leave any corps HQs ‘a bridge too far’ this turn, so it’ll probably be the first that I choose. I’ll decide in a bit after I get done advancing units.

I got too enthusiastic marching all the infantry forward, and forgot to leave a garrison in Minsk. Unforced error. I had to drive Lehr brigade back from Vitebsk, which gives Minsk a partial garrison at least. Usually I have shift-K Garrison toggle turned on, but I didn’t. On the plus side, Vitebsk is mine, and all of PzGroup 2 and 3 are poised to start the Battle of Smolensk on 10July41, right on schedule.

Rail pool is set at 10%, and that’s enough to move most of my reinforcements forward. I can easily wait an extra turn rather than spend AP to increase it. The two divisions marching east towards the Vistula are issued extra socks. Maybe they’ll find an empty train next week.

I did end up using 36 AP to assign 2nd Army to AGN. AGC is still 5CP beyond command capacity, but I can fix that by moving another three divisions next turn.

Despite the late hour, I try and do all the tidying up and get the turn sent off. I’ve been paying more attention to HQ placement during moves so there should be less errors and out of range units this turn.

Good thing I checked unit supply more carefully - four panzers were isolated (either I’m not reading supply rules right, or there are still some glitches in this beta). Problem is around Vitebsk. LVII PzK HQ is at 75,50 with 26 MP and 18 hexes to rail. I moved it to 76,49 so now it is 29 MP, 19 hexes. Still doesn’t fix problem - the three divisions are 3, 4, and 5 hexes away - but showing off-rail range as 27, 28, and 27 hexes. Last time I checked, 19+3 was 22, not 27. I ended up not finishing turn that night, Instead, I asked Telemecus about this, and also posted on the boards. [update: this is a combination bug plus change, from what I understand according to the forums. Hex range to rail is now calculated along lowest MP path (change), and the 25 hex isolation limit is being applied to combat units not just HHQ (bug). The change calculating hexes along lowest MP path has the greatest effect in mixed terrain, as the supply path zigzags to go through clear terrain hexes.]

After finding out more on the supply issues, I move around a couple of panzers so they aren't isolated from supply, then deal with end of turn stuff. Rail done, air units moved up, refit/ready set, all but 1 AP used. Here's a look at the north half of AGC sector.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part E

I didn't realize this while I was actually playing Turn 3, but here is another shot of the same area, this time in Rail Mode. ['r' key] This mode is a lot easier than trying to hover over hexes and check range and MP stats. All the dark shaded areas, including the city of Vitebsk, are over 25 hexes from railhead. Under 12.02 that means any unit in these dark shaded areas is in a supply dead zone and will get nothing. Anyone using v12.02 should check unit placement carefully each turn. Morvael intends to fix things in his next patch but we don't know when we'll get an update, so use care until that happens is all I can advise.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part F

Here's a pic of the southern half of the AGC zone, centered around Minsk. I didn't quite reach the Dnepr but defenses look pretty weak.



All in all, things are going pretty well for Axis. Soviet withdrawals have kept their casualties down, but my units are many miles farther forward since they don't have to deal with reducing pockets or advancing through contested ZOC hexes. Theoretically I'll get east faster than historically achieved, but face more troops and have bigger battles when I get close to Leningrad and Moscow. We'll see if things work out like that once we get to the September turns.

27 hexes to Moscow, 17 to Osinovets.
Vehicle pool 173k (48k needed). Rail at turn start was 184k total. 166k available for supply after unit moves (160k needed). I'm at 100%, no penalty, for both vehicle and rail. This is a Good Thing (tm).

Total losses at end of Axis Turn 3: Axis 37496 men, 473 gun, 374 afv, 27 spac. Soviet 920938 men, 14014 gun, 6450 afv, 1955 spac
Net loss of about 2300 vehicles this turn: 2500 lost, 200 captured.
Air losses: Axis 32 (this turn), 123 Total. Soviet 168 (this turn), 5144 Total. Fighters the only type where losses came close to new prod.
Destroyed units: 24 this turn, mostly SU and forts. 2 rifle, 1 mtn division; 1 AT brigade, 8 fortified regions were the on-map losses.
OOB shows Germany at 3.3M manpower, Soviet at 3.14M.

No major risks to consider, since Soviets are husbanding troops and planes. As far as errors, I messed up garrison for Minsk, and (though it’s not really my error, but a v1.12 bug) one panzer unit is out of supply range while it garrisons Vitebsk. Right now my panzers are very spread out - they’ve had little to fight, let alone pocket, so they are doing ZOC conversions more than anything else. Infantry should catch up to the front line in most places next turn. It doesn't look like there'll be any big pocket opportunities until my rail heads and supply reach can get a bit farther forward.

[Nekronion]

Good to see a 1.12 AAR [:)]

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 4 Play Notes part A

GamerDad and I had a short hiatus for Thanksgiving holiday etc. but we've now finished turn 8, so here is turn 4 for everyone.

At first glance, looks like withdrawals have continued. The line is pulled back 3-5 hexes everywhere in the Ukraine. I can only see a couple ground units in AGC and AGN areas. From air unit placement, I think the defense line is a few hexes west of Smolensk/VeliLuki/Novgorod.

Panzer unit fuel is not good in AGC - even in the corps I hit with HQBU, one panzer only has 23 MP. The PzD I left supply-isolated in Vitebsk only has 10 MP. I moved a Ju52 unit to railhead by Vilnius to drop it some gas during this turn. AGN panzers are in horrible shape too with only 10-20 MP. 1st PzG in AGS is in much better shape - one div even has a full 50 MP.

Event report is pretty bland. No random dead generals etc. Rail availability down at the bottom in the Resource Status section shows I have 100% needed for supply hauling, with a bit left over. Since this is the last turn I have 4+ divs as reinforcements for a while, I’ll use a few AP if I have them to turn the reserved rail setting down, maybe 5 points worth.

Battle report shows something besides my interdicts this time - about 30 scouting flights. That’s it, though. Recons did cost me a few fighters. The recons are scattered, probably one run of AI recon in GamerDad’s turn. There’s no obvious focus looking for panzers for example. My interdictions were all in AGS area as Soviets pulled back. All but one of them caused MP loss and they probably messed up a few movement plans.

Looking into Commander Reports, about 5 ftr units are a bit fatigued. I send 5 fighter and 5 bomber units to Reserve, mostly Stab schwarms. I pull a couple of rested units back out of reserve. I leave all the other combat air units there in reserve; they are still low on planes and EXP. I’ve got 6+ fully rested recon units I can bring forward, though I doubt there will be a need.

I assign another three Construction SU to Rumanian Railroad Command. That should get its RRV up to 16 next turn. That might be one SU too many, since most of the German FBDs only have seven SU in them. Speaking of SUs, OKH finally has a pile of them, so I can start free assignments back down now. For map units, I spend 6 AP and assign two ID from 9th Armee in AGC to 2nd Armee in AGN. AGC HQ is now at limit once I recombine some regiments. AGS...well, they are still at -49 CP.

Air Recon (first an AI run, then some manual flights) finds the main line. Odessa is heavily defended, the MLR line runs up the Bug river-Vinnitsa-Zhitomir-marshes. AGC and AGN face a line on Dnepr river-Smolensk-VeliLuki-swamps-Novgorod-Luga river. Tallinn may be empty according to scouts.

Units start advancing. Pskov is defended only by a fort.zone then an NKVD rgt. Half the Finns are unlocked, and they advance well. One Russian division is almost surrounded, and should be forced to surrender in a turn or two.

[Shalkai]

Not shown above is movement of the Finn I Corps HQ to near Hanno. Once the combat units facing the Soviet base unlock they can be put into that HQ to make eventual assault easier.

My infantry don’t have quite enough MP to get to Tallinn, but much of Estonia is put under German control. A few Inf make contact with the line between Pskov and VeliLuki. East of Vitebsk, the supply bug means any advancing units would be isolated. An evening is spent moving units forward, working first with the units farthest in the rear. Most of the turn is done by bedtime but I still have some tricky bits to do - try to get a Dnepr bridgehead north of Mogilev, see if I can pocket Vinnitsa, and drive to the Black Sea to cut off Odessa.

Proskurov (two rifleD) and the last holdout in the Carpathians are forced to surrender - it took three attacks to take Proskurov, plus bombing.

Play continues the next evening. I pocketed 10+ divisions around Vinnitsa. It took every pzr and mot division in 1st PG, but I *think* it will hold. This means no drive to the Black Sea, unfortunately. Oh well. I’d rather pocket and kill divisions; isolating Odessa isn’t as critical as blowing up the Bug defensive line.

[Shalkai]

Axis Turn 4 Part C

Moving back up to AGC, infantry advances and a few reach the Dnepr, though not with enough MP left to assault. I can run a panzer corps up and probably knock one defender back, then move across Infantry. Or save panzers for next turn. The supply check bug means panzers won’t be able to go forward much further on Turn 5 though, probably only two or three hexes past what I’ve already captured. Bridgehead it is, then. A single hex over the Dnepr now will allow me in a turn or two to easily break any defensive line along the river once my supply catches up.

Attack is successful after two bombing sorties, and I’m able to get a panzer and an infantry division across the bridges at Orsha. I’m curious if GamerDad will stay put at the Dnepr another turn, or withdraw to the Sozh river. I’ll put a 5-spot on withdraw.