Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) - SOVIET RETURNED - NO AXIS

[timmyab]

if someone more experienced with Soviet play would take me closer under their wing to teach me it would be great.

I'm sure all the while you keep asking for help on this forum people will be happy to offer good advice. Your technical ability will grow and soon it will be you handing out the ass kickings [:)]

Even good Soviet players are walking the wire these days in 1941, and every mistake you make snowballs so that even small differences in skill level between opponents become magnified fairly quickly. That's one of the reasons why compleated games are quite rare.

I have to concede that this game is probably lost now. 4th pz group will be winging it's way towards Moscow as we speak and the Summer's only half over.
I would continue though. Go all in at Moscow, build a massive wall and force him to take the city. It's a common situation in this game and learning (possibly by mistake) the technical aspects of defending Moscow against a strong human player will almost certainly pay off in future.

When this game finishes please start another AAR and we will help you out where we can. Also read the AARs of successful Soviet players paying close attention to their tactical defensive setups. I think you have the right idea but it needs honing and like a chain your defense is only as strong as it's weakest link.

[WingedIncubus]

Quick question: I have 175 APs now reaching August, should I be starting to build new like Rifle Divisions?

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: Drakken

Quick question: I have 175 APs now reaching August, should I be starting to build new like Rifle Divisions?

Rifle divisions are currently overpriced, maybe 40 points. It is not a very good idea.

Be sûre you have correct leaders in your order of battle, and you can beginning to built the support units you will add to your cavalry corps in december. (Usually people put 2 sappers regiments and one tank bataillon to a cavalry corps. but others configuration are possible).

It is a good idea to have all your army HQ with a good number of support troops. (Like AA, anti tank, artillery)

[bigbaba]

I have to second what Stelteck said. good leaders make an amazing difference. especially in a "better CV" game. run a test and build an army with a crappy leader. then put someone with high moral and infantry rating as army commander and just compare the CV.

[WingedIncubus]

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

I have to second what Stelteck said. good leaders make an amazing difference. especially in a "better CV" game. run a test and build an army with a crappy leader. then put someone with high moral and infantry rating as army commander and just compare the CV.

That would make sense to remove as many poor Commanders as possible, especially in the Centre and the South since those remain the Fronts where I have a fighting chance. Centre already has Rossokovsky and Vasilievsky but I have plenty of armies that are poorly led.

As more and more of my TOEs are getting upgraded is there a particular upgrade I should be looking for? What about Airforce Reserve?

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: Drakken

As more and more of my TOEs are getting upgraded is there a particular upgrade I should be looking for? What about Airforce Reserve?

Not really, just be aware that your TOE "upgrade" of your rifle division is in fact a downgrade and will be worse and worse until September where some heavy equipment slowly return (In september, you will receive 14.5mm anti tank rifle, hurra victory is near... [:'(]). But in fact the rifle division of june 1941 was your best and heavier rifle division ever, you will never be so good for TOE point of view. [:'(]

About airforce, you have enough of everything except tactical bombers, you can begin to create some if you have enough spare IL-2. And maybe a few number of recon and transport squadrons.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Drakken

Quick question: I have 175 APs now reaching August, should I be starting to build new like Rifle Divisions?

If you "save" your APs as Soviet player, you'll bleed them to returning units. They have an AP cost when they get destroyed, but if you have 0 APs available, they're free. So basically you should be spending all your APs every turn unless you're saving for something really special, like corps conversion (that can be done by using the APs generated by new fronts partially).

If you really want to build infantry, build brigades, they're cheaper and you'll need them for digging & reserve activations. But I don't think you should build them in '41.

You need sappers for your armies and corps, a handful of tank battalions, maybe some extra howitzer regiments if you have spare 152mm tubes in the pool, light rocket regiments when you start having launchers in the pool, some AT regiments if you have 85mm AA or 76mm AT available. Check your ground element pools, if there's an excess of something, it might be a good idea to build SUs that use those elements. However try to be aware of major ToE changes in units that you have in great numbers (rifle div/bde, tank bde), they are sometimes dramatic and can empty thousands of elements from the pool when they refit to the new ToE.

Upgrade your most experienced Polikarpovs (I-153 etc.) to better planes, Yak-1 is a good sturdy option. Build U-2VS hordes to cause casualties with night missions. You might end up using 50+ NBAP air groups in your final setup. Build U-2 transports to supply your pockets, they can be upgraded to Li-2 later on. Build as many Li-2 regiments as you can keep full strength (depends a lot how daring supply missions you run, or do you keep them just for partisan supply). Build new IL-2 regiments, they'll be the workhorse of your Air Armies.

Make a plan how to hit the 600 air group limit (optimistic!): 200 IAP, 100 ShAP, 100 BAP/DBAP, 50 NBAP, 20 RAP and 20 TAP is approximately the '42 Red Air Force, you can figure out what suits your playstyle with the 100+ airgroup headroom you have with these numbers. You may probably want more ShAP and NBAP to inflict casualties with bombing runs, more IAP if you want to secure your air superiority.

Promoting better leaders is also an important priority as Stelteck and Bigbaba already stated.

I also like to keep my armies in good order, normally I spend a handful of points to shuffle the units around and keep them in good order and hierarchy. Move best units where they really count.

[M60A3TTS]

You don't need any U-2VS planes. IL-2 will get you through just fine. The level bombers can fill in until the IL-2s are available in quantity.

Replace good leaders in the early game where they will be most effective. A good general leading a bunch of divisions with a morale level of 35 and an experience level of 20 will accomplish nothing.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

You don't need any U-2VS planes. IL-2 will get you through just fine. The level bombers can fill in until the IL-2s are available in quantity.

Replace good leaders in the early game where they will be most effective. A good general leading a bunch of divisions with a morale level of 35 and an experience level of 20 will accomplish nothing.

U-2VS pros & cons:

+ cost (81ARM vs 617ARM against IL-2)
+ availability (IL-2 might be in short supply in '41 and early '42, the factories may even get destroyed. You can start building U-2VS groups right from the start)
+ fuel and ammo consumption (this normally isn't a problem though)
- everything else

I agree that 50 groups might be too much, but I wouldn't completely skip the early war punch that they pack, for low cost. The AP cost is a problem though, since they don't upgrade to anything.

[WingedIncubus]

T8 - August 7th, 1941 - Northern Sector

Not much I can do here. Osinovets has enough capacity left for evacuating only one Division to Svititsa.

In the East I have reshuffled troops way from Novaya Ladoga behind the Syas River while I try to use the favourable terrain on the Lower Syas.

PG1 is nowhere to be found. Despite my best recon efforts I cannot find any panzer in the Northern Sector. I fear they are racing South toward Moscow.

[WingedIncubus]

T8 - August 7th, 1941 - Central Sector

I move my troops to make a final stand behind the Moskva and Nara rivers, while I extend my left flank over the lower Nara behind Kaluga.

Reserve Front relocated behind the MV Canal north of Moscow.

I spend a massive number of AP to assign new, competent commanders to Armies on the front:

10th - Malinovsky
54th (in Moscow itself) - Govorov
20th - Rybalko
69th Rifle - Galitsky
22th - Petrov
33rd - Golikov
34th - Galanin

I also send the biggest wave of bombers and tactical bombers as possible on Psych0's tanks, motorized, and massed Infantry Divisions. For the first time, I am starting to see some "significant" damages - and no Luftwaffe cover in sight, so I send EVERY ABLE BOMBER.

[WingedIncubus]

T8 - August 7th, 1941 - Southern Sector

The last survivors from the Dnepr line have now reached the rear line.

Same as in the Centre. I've spent the remaining APs to change a few commanders around Kharkov and reassign units to closer HQs.

Bombers ahoy!

[WingedIncubus]

T8 - August 7th, 1941 - Other considerations

[M60A3TTS]

You've got the airbases fixed, so thumbs up there.

Leningrad- it bears repeating, never ever withdraw from the Finnish No Attack Line. In doing so, you deprive yourself of two hexes worth of units that now cannot be in a reserve state in defending Osinovets since they are adjacent to enemy units.

Have you taken the industry from Kaluga? The units there and immediately to the east need to pull back behind the river by Serpukhov.

Your industry looks healthy, you could win the game no problem with what is remaining.

You have good leaders it seems where you need them.

How many panzer corps are operating around Moscow based on what you have seen from various combat results?

[WingedIncubus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Leningrad- it bears repeating, never ever withdraw from the Finnish No Attack Line. In doing so, you deprive yourself of two hexes worth of units that now cannot be in a reserve state in defending Osinovets since they are adjacent to enemy units.

The reason I withdrew was that I was actually attacked by Finnish troops across that No Attack Line. I had placed troops on the three hexes below the line, and the Finnish attacked me nonetheless. [&:]

[WingedIncubus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Have you taken the industry from Kaluga?

No. And neither from Bryansk either. Totally forgot about those two when I used all my Cap. [:(]

[WingedIncubus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

How many panzer corps are operating around Moscow based on what you have seen from various combat results?

No clue. I refer myself to what I see on the map.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Drakken

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Leningrad- it bears repeating, never ever withdraw from the Finnish No Attack Line. In doing so, you deprive yourself of two hexes worth of units that now cannot be in a reserve state in defending Osinovets since they are adjacent to enemy units.

The reason I withdrew was that I was actually attacked by Finnish troops across that No Attack Line. I had placed troops on the three hexes below the line, and the Finnish attacked me nonetheless. [&:]

That simply isn't possible, unless there is a bug.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Drakken

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

How many panzer corps are operating around Moscow based on what you have seen from various combat results?

No clue. I refer myself to what I see on the map.

Good recon and intelligence is really important for the Soviet side! Try to keep track where the panzers are and what they're doing.

Here's my "Stavka intel" document attached, for your eyes only

I try to find all the PzCorps and their divisions, and also should keep track what the best infantry corps are up to too. I check their supply distance (6/30 = 6 hexes, 30MP for example), keep track of their fuel situation and try to speculate if they would be doing a buildup.

[Stelteck]

Wow i want you as my chief of staff [&o]. (While i grumble general directions on the map and let my subordinate translate this into orders).