You are right to prepare for the future.
Still you are in better position than me to avoid the automatic german victory as rostov can be secured for sure so i hope this AAR will go on. [:'(]
Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End (No Pelton)
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Brakes are for cowards !!
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Sammy5IsAlive
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RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Re the German 'supply distance' my understanding is that this is 30 hexes from the railhead - a HQ can pick up supply from 25 hexes and then its subordinate units take supply from the HQ at up to 5 further hexes. May well be wrong - I am extremely inexperienced!
Really enjoying this AAR - the effort that you are putting in to the pdfs is very impressive and I feel that despite the game going against you I am learning a great deal from your approach.
Really enjoying this AAR - the effort that you are putting in to the pdfs is very impressive and I feel that despite the game going against you I am learning a great deal from your approach.
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn nineteen
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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Sammy: In my experience, Pelton has been reluctant to move his HQ's around to much (he wants to save trucks). So in our game the distance I use is 25 hexes. This will probably vary based on the German truck pool.
However, in my understanding you could conceivably put an army group HQ 24 hexes in front of your railhead, and army five hexes in front of that, a corps HQ further five hexes ahead and then you divisions five hexes further out. However, I don't really count this as within the supply distance as you would need so many trucks moving supplies that you would end up getting little supply to the front at all.
I basically use the 25 hex distance as a sort of imaginary line of where the German supply will "tip over" and the Germans will start having supply shortages. So if a strategic target is 40 hexes out Pelton will not target it (I think). If it is 30 hexes out, he will target it "if worth the effort", if 20 hexes he will certainly go for it.
In short, it is a sort of "You need to deal with potential German targets on one side of the line differently than targets on the other side of the line".
I don't know if this makes any sense at all.
However, in my understanding you could conceivably put an army group HQ 24 hexes in front of your railhead, and army five hexes in front of that, a corps HQ further five hexes ahead and then you divisions five hexes further out. However, I don't really count this as within the supply distance as you would need so many trucks moving supplies that you would end up getting little supply to the front at all.
I basically use the 25 hex distance as a sort of imaginary line of where the German supply will "tip over" and the Germans will start having supply shortages. So if a strategic target is 40 hexes out Pelton will not target it (I think). If it is 30 hexes out, he will target it "if worth the effort", if 20 hexes he will certainly go for it.
In short, it is a sort of "You need to deal with potential German targets on one side of the line differently than targets on the other side of the line".
I don't know if this makes any sense at all.
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
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Sammy5IsAlive
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RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Yes that makes complete sense.
I checked the manual and I don't think it's possible to 'chain' HQs in the way you describe - it seems that all HQs take supply from the rail head and only pass on supply to directly subordinate units.
I think that the '25 hexes' idea is a good rule of thumb - my understanding is that at 25 hexes a HQ is going to get a really reduced amount of supply to then pass on to its units so the capabilities of those units will be severely impaired. In theory though I guess a unit 30 hexes away could be supplied by a HQ buildup albeit I imagine that would consume very significant amount of trucks. Maybe worth keeping in mind if you were playing a less 'truck-conscious' opponent.
I checked the manual and I don't think it's possible to 'chain' HQs in the way you describe - it seems that all HQs take supply from the rail head and only pass on supply to directly subordinate units.
I think that the '25 hexes' idea is a good rule of thumb - my understanding is that at 25 hexes a HQ is going to get a really reduced amount of supply to then pass on to its units so the capabilities of those units will be severely impaired. In theory though I guess a unit 30 hexes away could be supplied by a HQ buildup albeit I imagine that would consume very significant amount of trucks. Maybe worth keeping in mind if you were playing a less 'truck-conscious' opponent.
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EwaldvonKleist
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- Location: Berlin, Germany
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
@Dinglir: You got things wrong here. The Maximum distance from the railhead is 25hexes HQ distance+5hexagons HQ-unit distance=30hexagons. As Sammy already wrote, there is no chain of HQs. The only important HQ for supply purposes is the one the combat unit is directly attached to!
I wrote an excerpt of the supply rules for myself which briefly explains the conditions for HQ supply:
"How supply works:
There are two kinds of distances for supply purposes:
-MP distance: Equal to the MP cost for a 99 morale motorized unit to move from the supply source (Railhead, HQ, city) to the receiver
-hexagon distance: Number of hexagons which have to be crossed on the shortest way from the supply source to the receiver, regardless of hex control or type (=as the crow flies)
Any combat or FBD/NKPS unit can draw supplies from the HQ it is directly attached to, a city or a railhead. It is in most cases more efficient if the unit draws its MPs from the HQ instead of other sources.
Supply from HQ:
The following conditions have to be met to allow resupply from HQs:
1. MP distance unit-HQ: <21MPs (not taken into account if the hexagon distance is <2)
2. Hexagon distance unit-HQ: <6hexagons
3. MP distance eligible HQ-railhead: <101MPs
4. Hexagon distance HQ-railhead: <26hexagons
Therefore, the maximum distance from the railhead which still allows unit resupply is <31hexagons and <121MPs.
Supply from railhead:
If the conditions for HQ supply are not met, the unit attempts to draw supplies from the closest railhead if the following conditions are fulfilled:
1. MP distance unit-railhead <101MPs
2. Hexagon distance unit-railhead <21hexagons
The supply delivered is reduced to 20/MP distance for MP distance >20MPs.
HQs and supply:
During the logistic phase, the HQs serve as a supply source to directly attached units if all conditions are met. The units will be first resupplied from the dumps in the HQ unit. If the dumps are used, the HQ draws more supplies from the railhead and tries to satisfy the need of the units with it. If the supply situation is good, the HQ then stockpiles dumps for the next turns.
Cities:
HQs and units can draw supplies from cities if the hexagon distance is <2.
Special rules:
Airbase units, fortified zones and security units resupply individually (not from HQs) without penalties (new in 1.08.09)
"
I wrote an excerpt of the supply rules for myself which briefly explains the conditions for HQ supply:
"How supply works:
There are two kinds of distances for supply purposes:
-MP distance: Equal to the MP cost for a 99 morale motorized unit to move from the supply source (Railhead, HQ, city) to the receiver
-hexagon distance: Number of hexagons which have to be crossed on the shortest way from the supply source to the receiver, regardless of hex control or type (=as the crow flies)
Any combat or FBD/NKPS unit can draw supplies from the HQ it is directly attached to, a city or a railhead. It is in most cases more efficient if the unit draws its MPs from the HQ instead of other sources.
Supply from HQ:
The following conditions have to be met to allow resupply from HQs:
1. MP distance unit-HQ: <21MPs (not taken into account if the hexagon distance is <2)
2. Hexagon distance unit-HQ: <6hexagons
3. MP distance eligible HQ-railhead: <101MPs
4. Hexagon distance HQ-railhead: <26hexagons
Therefore, the maximum distance from the railhead which still allows unit resupply is <31hexagons and <121MPs.
Supply from railhead:
If the conditions for HQ supply are not met, the unit attempts to draw supplies from the closest railhead if the following conditions are fulfilled:
1. MP distance unit-railhead <101MPs
2. Hexagon distance unit-railhead <21hexagons
The supply delivered is reduced to 20/MP distance for MP distance >20MPs.
HQs and supply:
During the logistic phase, the HQs serve as a supply source to directly attached units if all conditions are met. The units will be first resupplied from the dumps in the HQ unit. If the dumps are used, the HQ draws more supplies from the railhead and tries to satisfy the need of the units with it. If the supply situation is good, the HQ then stockpiles dumps for the next turns.
Cities:
HQs and units can draw supplies from cities if the hexagon distance is <2.
Special rules:
Airbase units, fortified zones and security units resupply individually (not from HQs) without penalties (new in 1.08.09)
"
The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players
WitE2&RtW3 tester
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players
WitE2&RtW3 tester
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
You are right of course.
The manual states eligible COMBAT units.
I stand corrected.
The manual states eligible COMBAT units.
I stand corrected.
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn twenty.
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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn twentyone.
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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn twentytwo.
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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Congrats the auto loose situation looks far away now.
Brakes are for cowards !!
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
I have now received and returned turn twentythree to Pelton.
However, I have deicded to postpone the publishing of my reports for a few turns. This is not because I have any reason to distrust Pelton when he says he will not read this thread. Rather, I want to free myself from those nagging "what if he does read them" questions my paranoid brain keep asking me.
So to all you readers of this thread (sounds like a lot when I put it this way), you'll just have to wait a while for anything new to appear...
However, I have deicded to postpone the publishing of my reports for a few turns. This is not because I have any reason to distrust Pelton when he says he will not read this thread. Rather, I want to free myself from those nagging "what if he does read them" questions my paranoid brain keep asking me.
So to all you readers of this thread (sounds like a lot when I put it this way), you'll just have to wait a while for anything new to appear...
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
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teufelchen
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:19 pm
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Good luck during the winter turns
I´m surprised about the U-2 successes. Seems to be worth investing in this cheep and mass aircraft.
Please dont let us wait for a long time until continuiung your report. Its very interesting.[:)]
I´m surprised about the U-2 successes. Seems to be worth investing in this cheep and mass aircraft.
Please dont let us wait for a long time until continuiung your report. Its very interesting.[:)]
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
I have now received and returned turn twentythree to Pelton.
However, I have deicded to postpone the publishing of my reports for a few turns. This is not because I have any reason to distrust Pelton when he says he will not read this thread. Rather, I want to free myself from those nagging "what if he does read them" questions my paranoid brain keep asking me.
So to all you readers of this thread (sounds like a lot when I put it this way), you'll just have to wait a while for anything new to appear...
Too bad for us reader, but i understand that publishing reserve army position ready for offensive in advance is quite a risk as you enter the winter.
Brakes are for cowards !!
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn twentythree.
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- 20161023Turn23.zip
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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Yes, fresh news !!
Thanks for the comparaison with my games it will help me evaluate my own campaign.
It is interesting as we do not think the same way relative to strategic decisions. Seeing differents mindset is fun.
From my point of view, you did a great job defending the southern objectives this year, so you know now where german will attack in 1942.
If i where him, as you annoy german with your offensive out of crimea, i would target first rostov then goind south/SE to isolate crimea from soviet soil.
Also, the more you will be able to hurt him south during winter (and gain space), the more you will be able to resist it. I would have sent all reserves armies south. I'am so predictable.
Of course, i'am not him nor you [:D]
Thanks for the comparaison with my games it will help me evaluate my own campaign.
It is interesting as we do not think the same way relative to strategic decisions. Seeing differents mindset is fun.
From my point of view, you did a great job defending the southern objectives this year, so you know now where german will attack in 1942.
If i where him, as you annoy german with your offensive out of crimea, i would target first rostov then goind south/SE to isolate crimea from soviet soil.
Also, the more you will be able to hurt him south during winter (and gain space), the more you will be able to resist it. I would have sent all reserves armies south. I'am so predictable.
Of course, i'am not him nor you [:D]
Brakes are for cowards !!
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Teufelchen: Actually, the successes of my U-2VS's are due to the factthat Pelton has decided not to deal with them. Effectually, they fly with impunity whenever and whereever they want. Of course, other players will deal with them differently. I believe their main effect is to create a need for the Germans to deal with te threat from night bombers or face the losses. With the limited size of the Luftwaffe, this is a real dilemma for the Germans.
Stelteck: I am not so sure as to where Pelton will attack come spring. Actually, I think taht Pelton himself is yet undecided. It certainly goes well with his mentality of "taking what is offered". My job will be to offer as little as possible.
Stelteck: I am not so sure as to where Pelton will attack come spring. Actually, I think taht Pelton himself is yet undecided. It certainly goes well with his mentality of "taking what is offered". My job will be to offer as little as possible.
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn twentyfour.
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- 20161025Turn24.zip
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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn twentyfive.
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
There is no surprise at all that Pelton is willing to let you attack weak Axis troops from the Crimea. He will allow you to overextend yourself over the winter and then when good weather returns he can rail in whatever he needs to slice up and annihilate your defenders.