A Clash of Titans, Xhoel (Axis) vs Bitburger (Soviet)

[EwaldvonKleist]

Only if you get yourself encircled. It is a kind of "win or die" motivation.

[Telemecus]

I think the jump in pay is about to be cancelled out by the higher life insurance premiums ...

[xhoel]

@EvK: Indeed. Was the only turn during summer where operations were really fluid. Well deserved promotion of EvK, he has done outstanding work leading the 1st Panzer Army

@Telemecus: I wasn't intending for him to command a corps anyways

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

@Vifee: It will continue in 1.12.03!

I sent the turn to Bitburger yesterday. We are continuing the game in the new patch. Expect updates soon!

This game was started in 11.3? You updated to 12.3? If that is the case will you not have the same situation that Model1950 had in one of his games? Have you noticed anything adverse?

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


This game was started in 11.3? You updated to 12.3? If that is the case will you not have the same situation that Model1950 had in one of his games? Have you noticed anything adverse?

It started in 1.11.02, was eventually updated to 1.11.03 and now latest update was in 1.12.03. No, I have not had any problems like Model1950 had.

There are plenty of good changes but also a lot of problems in 1.12.03.

Positives:

+Exp bug fixed which means the Soviets can recover more easily and the Germans too after 1943.
+NR bug fixed.
+You can now see how many MPs are reduced by air interdiction.
+You can see how much supply/fuel was delivered by air if you click on the battle icon.
+Fuel Reqs for armored/motorized formations have almost doubled which nerfs air resupply.
+Air bases pull supply from cities, which makes the air war less of a pain in the ass to conduct.
+You can now see the max level of forts that can be build in a hex as well the reductions during combat due to pioneers and artillery.
+Soviet manpower multiplier increase.
+HQs and airbases do not magically disappear from pockets. Reworked retreat routine leads to less Soviet formations routing. This was a big one I noticed. In 1.11.03 units in certain positions would rout, now they just retreat 2 hexes deep which is a good change.

Negatives:

-Routing routine is all over the place. Units displace to retarded locations. Will be fixed in 1.12.04 from what I have heard.
-Shattering is happening more often due to the morale needed for it being 50 and below. Talked to morvael about it and he assured me that it will be fixed.
-Not possible to see isolated units. Will be fixed in 1.12.04.
-Retreating is not working as it should, leading to weird results but nothing game breaking. Will be fixed in 1.12.04.
-Trucks have become irrelevant which takes a fun aspect of the game out of play and also impacts realism.

This is all I can think of for now.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


This game was started in 11.3? You updated to 12.3? If that is the case will you not have the same situation that Model1950 had in one of his games? Have you noticed anything adverse?

It started in 1.11.02, was eventually updated to 1.11.03 and now latest update was in 1.12.03. No, I have not had any problems like Model1950 had.

There are plenty of good changes but also a lot of problems in 1.12.03.

Positives:

+Exp bug fixed which means the Soviets can recover more easily and the Germans too after 1943.
+NR bug fixed.
+You can now see how many MPs are reduced by air interdiction.
+You can see how much supply/fuel was delivered by air if you click on the battle icon.
+Fuel Reqs for armored/motorized formations have almost doubled which nerfs air resupply.
+Air bases pull supply from cities, which makes the air war less of a pain in the ass to conduct.
+You can now see the max level of forts that can be build in a hex as well the reductions during combat due to pioneers and artillery.
+Soviet manpower multiplier increase.
+HQs and airbases do not magically disappear from pockets. Reworked retreat routine leads to less Soviet formations routing. This was a big one I noticed. In 1.11.03 units in certain positions would rout, now they just retreat 2 hexes deep which is a good change.

Negatives:

-Routing routine is all over the place. Units displace to retarded locations. Will be fixed in 1.12.04 from what I have heard.
-Shattering is happening more often due to the morale needed for it being 50 and below. Talked to morvael about it and he assured me that it will be fixed.
-Not possible to see isolated units. Will be fixed in 1.12.04.
-Retreating is not working as it should, leading to weird results but nothing game breaking. Will be fixed in 1.12.04.

This is all I can think of for now.

Thank you so much for the detailed changes.

[xhoel]

Unfortunately my opponent Bitburger resigned on turn 66. I was surprised and disappointed by the resignation considering that we had only 3 more turns until mud and the Battle for Moscow was still open and we could be up for a nice Stalingrad siege but it is what it is. I will post some more detailed losses that I have from the CR export of turn 66 but other than that I can't post much since I can't access the turn (even though the email says you can view a playback of the final turn).

Thank you to Bitburger for being a top notch opponent and sticking with the game even when things were not in his favor. He is a great guy and will be looking forward to facing him again in battle.

Thank you to everyone who has read the AAR and has shown their support (or criticism).

Cheers!

[joelmar]

Sad to hear, there were interesting things going on. It has been an interesting journey, congrats for your AAR and to both opponents for the nice game.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Sorry to hear that Xhoel. I wish both of you the best in your next game.

[Elessar2]

That Moscow pocket was a thing of beauty. [&o]

[Bitburger]

Xhoel has been an amazing opponent. Careful, skilled player, and a gentleman at all times. Anyone who plays him is luckier for the experience. Soviet players will know that this game was lost a while ago and though i was able to delay the outcome, i ran out of both time and units to prevent defeat. This game has taken almost a year and a half to get this far, and would take another 6 months to get to the final obvious outcome. Was a great read Xhoel and thanks very much for the game.

[Telemecus]

A lot of credit to bitburger for this game. Well done to both indeed.

It was started in v1.11 before changing over to v1.12. It would be interesting to see if the result would be different if it was v1.12 from the start?

Even if this is game over I hope you could still add to the AAR by what your plans were for the next few turns?

[xhoel]

@joelmar: There were interesting things going on indeed. However I do understand Bitburgers resignation. If the Soviets had had a bigger OOB and without the nasty exp bug that makes the return of many destroyed formations take so long, it was going to be a lost cause. The 1.12.03 patch came out too late. Had we switched to it in the summer of 1942 or maybe even spring, things would have looked much more different. Thank you for the kind words.

@HLYA: Thank you, looking forward to your continued game vs BrianG.

@Elessar2: Not a pocket yet, but If I had closed it, it would have been game over. A lot of units there and a lot of good ones as well. Thanks for the kind words though!

@Bitburger: Thank you very much! I can say the same thing about you Ron. Wonderful play, very skilled and very resilient. Thank you for a great game and I hope you enjoy reading the AAR. I am looking forward to play against you again. Maybe with a stable 1.12.04 like we talked about.

@Telemecus: Thank you very much! The result would have been much different if it had been started on 1.12 from the start indeed. Without the exp bug and with the new manpower multipliers, Bitburgers game of defending forward and counterattacking would have paid off a lot more.

I will add plans, including operation Tiger Biss, do a breakdown of losses and write my thoughts on the summer campaign. Like I said, because I cannot access the turn, I can't really provide more screenshots than what I have from turn 66, although I have quite a lot of screenshots that were not posted in the AAR.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

If the Soviets had had a bigger OOB and without the nasty exp bug that makes the return of many destroyed formations take so long, it was going to be a lost cause. The 1.12.03 patch came out too late. Had we switched to it in the summer of 1942 or maybe even spring, things would have looked much more different.

@HLYA: Thank you, looking forward to your continued game vs BrianG.

Xhoel,

Yes, the experience bug was very difficult to play with. We started our games around the same time as yours with Bitburger so I can feel his pain. IMO Bitburger did a good job with what he had. Looking forward to your game with Bitburger again. He is a worthy opponent.

What turn did you upgrade to patch 12+?

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Xhoel,

Yes, the experience bug was very difficult to play with. We started our games around the same time as yours with Bitburger so I can feel his pain. IMO Bitburger did a good job with what he had. Looking forward to your game with Bitburger again. He is a worthy opponent.

What turn did you upgrade to patch 12+?

He did a fantastic job on the defense and I have nothing but praise for him for his conduct both on and off the field. Stay tuned, we might start a new game/AAR in the future once 1.12.04 stabilizes. It will be more late war focused though, maybe a Stalingrad to Berlin GC, since I honestly am bored of the same old 1941 start.

Upgrade happened on turn 65 Soviet.

[king171717]

Really enjoyed this AAR!!

Thanks xhoel for providing such a high detail AAR that was a great to read! I really like when u did breakdowns of changes of divisions or how low your tanks where in your panzer divisions, etc.

Congrats on the win!

[John B.]

Thanks for the AAR. And congrats to both sides for a game well played between two gentlemen.

[xhoel]

Thanks for the kind words gents, really appreciate it! It was a pleasure writing the AAR. Due to a laptop issue I cannot access some files currently, but there will be a final update soon to conclude the whole thing (if I can fix things).

[Stamb]

Thanks for a great AAR!