Back in the East STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:12 am

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

STEF, the idea here is to set yourself up for encirclement operations later. First, the integrity of the Soviet Front needs to be broken up; there's a good two fronts (maybe 3) from the Dnepr bend south that could be put in a position where they cannot directly support the rest of the front and can only be redeployed slowly once the rail lines are cut and the German army is marching east of them towards Stalino. And mud would hinder them on top of that.

Once the weather clears up you smash your way east and force the Red Army to deploy his reserves to cover the Ukraine rather than smashing directly into your face in the center in what looks to me like nothing so much as Kursk a year in advance.

This movement opens things up and creates future opportunities where you hold the initiative. But the best chance to do this has come and past and now things will very likely bog down.

May be you were right but I'm really not sure that a single frontal attack would have succeeded. Oshawott had at least 4 lines of defence and some of them were as far as Stalino and the Don river!!

At least I wouldn't have lost 3 Pzd and a Mot

About these one, 3 are back and gaing morale and experience at a high rate (especially for morale)

jwolf · Post by **jwolf** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:32 am

I just want to echo my awe, fear, and amazement at Oshawott's 1942 Red Army. He has an OOB about 2 million higher than the 1942 starting figures for the Soviets, with much better organization, depth, and strength.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:46 pm

ORIGINAL: jwolf

I just want to echo my awe, fear, and amazement at Oshawott's 1942 Red Army. He has an OOB about 2 million higher than the 1942 starting figures for the Soviets, with much better organization, depth, and strength.

I already faced a stronger SHC army in june 1942 (it was Schacha's army) but mine was also much healthy!!!

morvael · Post by **morvael** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:31 pm

In my game vs cpt flam at this point I had 7.5M vs 5.2M (though I had 7.3k AFVs). Amazing army!

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:00 pm

Turn 57, 16th july 1942

I just forgot to mention another little problem of the german side...

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:33 am

Turn 60, 6th august 1942

Grinding fights in several parts of the front. Nothing decisive.

I will focus on Odessa. The city is strongly defended

ORIGINAL: Saper222

If you want take Odessa you must bombing port - easy to take it, Soviet cannot air cover it.

I already tried some ports bombing and did some at the end of turn 59. I decided to make a strong effort this turn.

The results are better

But is it worth the price?

What is the real effect of being unsupply? I read divided by ten but is it true?
What level of losses the port should suffer to achieve it? I read 90%, is it the case?

Champagne · Post by **Champagne** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:04 pm

Great AAR! Thanks very much for the lessons.

[&o]

Oshawott · Post by **Oshawott** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:57 pm

The results are better

Looks like German bombers are much better for bombing a port then Romanian bombers. Still I am puzzled why the 85 mm AA guns are not firing at all even so I have 60 in the city. Is this a bug?

Regarding your armament point situation I would like to know how many armament points does it cost to build a fortified zone?

caliJP · Post by **caliJP** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:12 pm

STEF,
I think you are pointing at the right symptom in your analysis of why you are where you are: you are facing a red army which is already huge by early 1942. From looking at the numbers at the end of T17, it seems clear the root cause dates from the summer 1941 campaign.
If I compare Oshawott's Red Army compared to my game against JC, at T17:

Loss OOB
Oshawott 1.85M 5.6M
JP 3.4M 4.1M

Even with my much lower numbers, I managed to stop my opponent's offensive in July 1942, and have been pushing back ever since. So I don't see how you stood a chance after T17, barring a major fubar from Oshawott.
I also had lost Leningrad and Stalino, Oshawott did not.

It's hard to see what happened in 1941 since the AAR is light in details for the first few turns. But looking at numbers at T5 and T10, it looks like Oshawott was free to run east and take few losses early on, and by T10 already had a mighty army, combining all the units that retreated and reinforcements. In my game against JC I committed to fight forward, so I took higher losses (I only lost Kiev at T12!). Yet I still ended up gaining the upper hand in 1942.

So I think if a good Soviet player is free to just run east, unless the German player is very skilled, knows all the good cheese

and opens with a huge Lvov pocket, the game is hugely to the soviets' advantage.

Oshawott · Post by **Oshawott** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:15 pm

What level of losses the port should suffer to achieve it? I read 90%, is it the case?

If I understand the port system correctly any level 1 port is able to supply troops. So you would have to reduce the level 15 port of Odessa to below level 1. This means you have to cause 94% damage to the port.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:00 am

ORIGINAL: Champagne

Great AAR! Thanks very much for the lessons.

[&o]

If there is somebody who takes a lesson in this game, it's me! [;)]

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:08 am

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

Regarding your armament point situation I would like to know how many armament points does it cost to build a fortified zone?

I have currently 82 forts, all but 4 at 50%TOE. It represents the strength of 4 divs.

The first will be disbanded this turn (61) as fort level has reached 4

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:16 am

ORIGINAL: caliJP

STEF,
I think you are pointing at the right symptom in your analysis of why you are where you are: you are facing a red army which is already huge by early 1942. From looking at the numbers at the end of T17, it seems clear the root cause dates from the summer 1941 campaign.
If I compare Oshawott's Red Army compared to my game against JC, at T17:
It's hard to see what happened in 1941 since the AAR is light in details for the first few turns. But looking at numbers at T5 and T10, it looks like Oshawott was free to run east and take few losses early on, and by T10 already had a mighty army, combining all the units that retreated and reinforcements. In my game against JC I committed to fight forward, so I took higher losses (I only lost Kiev at T12!). Yet I still ended up gaining the upper hand in 1942.

So I think if a good Soviet player is free to just run east, unless the German player is very skilled, knows all the good cheese and opens with a huge Lvov pocket, the game is hugely to the soviets' advantage.

I think Kiev fell turn 7 or 8 but I won't say that Oshawott did a run away. He was cautious but always counterattacking.

It's also clear that once the german player stops attacking, the russian gets the initiative within a couple of turns.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:19 am

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

What level of losses the port should suffer to achieve it? I read 90%, is it the case?

If I understand the port system correctly any level 1 port is able to supply troops. So you would have to reduce the level 15 port of Odessa to below level 1. This means you have to cause 94% damage to the port.

It can be even worse. Is 0,6 equal to 1 or 0?

carlkay58 · Post by **carlkay58** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:10 am

Stef, the game seems to always round down. Data is stored as integers so everything to the right of the decimal point is dropped.

Oshawott · Post by **Oshawott** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:37 am

It can be even worse.

It is worse because I forgot to take the repair rate of 3% into account. Damage would have to be 97%.

Oshawott · Post by **Oshawott** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:37 pm

And I also forgot to mention that the units will still have beachhead supply once port damage is 97%.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:09 pm

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

And I also forgot to mention that the units will still have beachhead supply once port damage is 97%.

I've got the solution. I will deliver to the garrison 10 000 bottles of vodka. It will help to soften the defence.[:'(]

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:15 pm

Turn 58, 23th july 1942

One step back with an overview of the global front.

Finns are under pressure and retreating.

In the right lower corner you can see my 3 units recreated. Not so bad...

Oshawott · Post by **Oshawott** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:30 pm

I've got the solution. I will deliver to the garrison 10 000 bottles of vodka. It will help to soften the defence.

Careful, vodka makes Russians fight better. [:)]