Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov

[HardLuckYetAgain]

"He who defends everything, defends nothing"
Frederich the Great


Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC




The Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (hex 73/30)


This is my Memoir of my strat, based on Frederich the Great qoute and Robert Barrow, which was used in 11 games playing the Soviet with 2 more games still in progress for a total of 13 games. Also my extensive knowledge of the German Army has benefited me greatly when playing the Soviet side Once my current 2 games get to a comfortable turn I will start posting pictures & my notes. The pictures may or may not be from the current game but will show overall strat not current game. Not including the current two games neither Leningrad nor Moscow have fallen in the 11 games I played in the last year and half as Soviet, BUT there is always the first time for that to happen and shall see in these two current ongoing games if either one or both of these players can capture one or the other or both Moscow and Leningrad

[Telemecus]

Looks like a must read!

[EwaldvonKleist]

Looking forward to learn and to soak up your notes.
I suppose there will be a 2=1 show as well

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Looking forward to learn and to soak up your notes.
I suppose there will be a 2=1 show as well

I just hope I can present something new that all can learn from. If that happens then I have done my job The current 2 games in progress does have the +1 Soviet Attack bonus. Of the other games already completed there were 3 others that had the +1 Soviet attack bonus in them. I soon decided that the +1 Soviet attack in the right hands is OP (Overpowered).

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Looking forward to learn and to soak up your notes.
I suppose there will be a 2=1 show as well

I just hope I can present something new that all can learn from. If that happens then I have done my job The current 2 games in progress does have the +1 Soviet Attack bonus. Of the other games already completed there were 3 others that had the +1 Soviet attack bonus in them. I soon decided that the +1 Soviet attack in the right hands is OP (Overpowered).

Just a side note that none of my Strategy relies on the Soviet +1 attack. I really prefer the none Soviet +1 since it makes me pull more of my hair out coming up with avenues of approach that the Germans can take and putting the right amount of strength in key hexes Many things that I do goes against conventional wisdom posted in prior AAR's. Such as defending hardcore around Pskov where many just put up a token defense falling back on Leningrad.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Here is some "Eye Candy" for a few days what I was referencing in my prior post to hold everyone over. Please note that Pskov is the 76 defense factor in the picture & this is turn 5. (NOTE: I still hold the one HEX west of Pskov too where the defense begins) This is from last year and have changed up a few things in this picture, it is a learning experience.

[Stelteck]

Looks like a very interesting AAR soon !!! Thanks.

Good luck both of you and have fun !!!

I'am already curious how you can have 22 offensive CV with a pile of 3 soviet divisions in 1941.

Is this alternate CV calculation ? it could be the answer.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Looks like a very interesting AAR soon !!! Thanks.

Good luck both of you and have fun !!!

I'am already curious how you can have 22 offensive CV with a pile of 3 soviet divisions in 1941.

Is this alternate CV calculation ? it could be the answer.

This is "NOT" an alternate CV calculation This is your Standard Bitter End Campaign or Sudden Death Campaign. By the way there is a way to get high CV values and I will show how, some probably already know how, it is easy

[EwaldvonKleist]

There are some very nice Panzer/Mot Divisions in the South. With some clever managed refit to focus all tanks into say 6-8 elite divisions, you can create 7-9CV monsters. The only downside of them is that they take enormous tank losses in combat, maybe thats the reason why HLYA stacked them with infantry, to soak up some of the losses. Curious whether there are some micromanagement tips to get many of those guys.

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Looks like a very interesting AAR soon !!! Thanks.

Good luck both of you and have fun !!!

I'am already curious how you can have 22 offensive CV with a pile of 3 soviet divisions in 1941.

Is this alternate CV calculation ? it could be the answer.

This is "NOT" an alternate CV calculation This is your Standard Bitter End Campaign or Sudden Death Campaign. By the way there is a way to get high CV values and I will show how, some probably already know how, it is easy

Hoooo.
I'am really, really curious and very eager to learn this.
The best units i saw for now in early 1941 was some tank divisions of northern front with a CV of 7. They are fixed at start. And some fully trained siberian rifle divisions with morale 55 of CV 4/5, but they began to appear in september.

[M60A3TTS]

I can get close in 4.

Zhukov and three 50+ morale divisions can get you there. I'd like to see your opponents Lvov pocket to see what divisions were not pocketed.


What are people using these days for image uploads?

Photobucket is terrible now and I need to get off there ASAP.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I can get close in 4.

Zhukov and three 50+ morale divisions can get you there. I'd like to see your opponents Lvov pocket to see what divisions were not pocketed.


What are people using these days for image uploads?

Photobucket is terrible now and I need to get off there ASAP.

Most of the Lvov pockets were of decent quality, some better than others. I didnt have a single game where a Lvov pocket wasn't made. But to be honest you can have the ultimate Lvov pocket in the south and it doesn't matter to me. I can make this work even if that happened too.

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I can get close in 4.

Zhukov and three 50+ morale divisions can get you there. I'd like to see your opponents Lvov pocket to see what divisions were not pocketed.


What are people using these days for image uploads?

Photobucket is terrible now and I need to get off there ASAP.

Try dropbox.

[chaos45]

unfortunately a good game in WiTE really depends on how good the German player is at managing logistics and first 5-7 turns of the game.

This is also where the game really breaks down as a good German player can completely overwhelming abuse the issues with unlimited logistics and esp the lack of Soviets ability to dig in.

Soviet play IMO doesnt matter much in the early game until they fix the support unit issues if the German player understands the game well. As the commander and support unit assignments were one of the few things the Soviet player could do in the early game to try and dictate what/where the Germans could go.

Again tho if the German player isnt top notch it doesnt matter as its all how they manage units/logistics in about the first 5-7 turns of the entire game.

[Crackaces]

I think the logistics is getting better in this last release. Not perfect and WITE 2.0 will be even more restrictive but in the terms of this match up I am finding that the Germans cannot drop as much fuel and supplies, and thus have to regroup for a precious turn that makes this Psov defense thing interesting ...

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

unfortunately a good game in WiTE really depends on how good the German player is at managing logistics and first 5-7 turns of the game.

This is also where the game really breaks down as a good German player can completely overwhelming abuse the issues with unlimited logistics and esp the lack of Soviets ability to dig in.

Soviet play IMO doesnt matter much in the early game until they fix the support unit issues if the German player understands the game well. As the commander and support unit assignments were one of the few things the Soviet player could do in the early game to try and dictate what/where the Germans could go.

Again tho if the German player isnt top notch it doesnt matter as its all how they manage units/logistics in about the first 5-7 turns of the entire game.

Define your "unlimited logistics" for me please. I believe I understand where you are coming from but want to make sure here.

The "digging in" part of the game has been there for awhile with the sappers. I believe it goes back to 1.85ish patch or something like that that was said by someone smarter than me on the issue. I'm not using this sapper digging in as a crutch since there is always another way to do something and that is what I have done in these games over the last year and half.

Supply to Pskov area never has been an issue for Germans in any game. Thus what the Soviets do in this area "does" matter. I hope to show that by the Soviets putting up a stiff defense around Pskov that the delay allows the saving of Leningrad. I also hope to show that the sapper not helping dig in is not the end all of a viable Soviet Defense. (Please don't forget that recently added rule that units in reserve/refit don't help digging in as much too, which is as it should be. Makes this even more fun!)

In these games as a Soviet I have used this strategy against a few of the best German players on the forums. Its like living on a knife edge but it really is fun (I have one hair left on my head after those games, Rogaine is helping to bring some of them back. BUT my alcohol addiction got worse during those games though.)

[chaos45]

unlimited logistics--supply of the entire panzer ball off one rail head. which allows any soviet position up until 1943 to be crushed by the Germans if they want.

The sapper issue isnt that old....maybe 6 months+ old.....so only the newest forums games have felt the effect of it--considering most games only post 2-3 turns a week...... All the old completed matched on the forums were played with Sappers allowing the dig-in...and its not just sappers this also prevent the engineer BDEs from assisting...and since digging in is the soviets best CV in the early game this is a big handicap. Yes you can spend those AP/armaments on other toys but if a soviet players starting a game now is playing by the rules and wastes effort on units that arent working its helping to strongly slant the game towards the Germans.

As per above...you can see good German players doing absolutely crushingly in more recent games that have started after the Sapper/engineers stopped being allowed to assist in soviet defense.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

unlimited logistics--supply of the entire panzer ball off one rail head. which allows any soviet position up until 1943 to be crushed by the Germans if they want.

The sapper issue isnt that old....maybe 6 months+ old.....so only the newest forums games have felt the effect of it--considering most games only post 2-3 turns a week...... All the old completed matched on the forums were played with Sappers allowing the dig-in...and its not just sappers this also prevent the engineer BDEs from assisting...and since digging in is the soviets best CV in the early game this is a big handicap. Yes you can spend those AP/armaments on other toys but if a soviet players starting a game now is playing by the rules and wastes effort on units that arent working its helping to strongly slant the game towards the Germans.

As per above...you can see good German players doing absolutely crushingly in more recent games that have started after the Sapper/engineers stopped being allowed to assist in soviet defense.

Ok, that is what I thought you meant on the "unlimited logistics", meaning more than the 2 PZ corps normally associated for that front, correct?

[M60A3TTS]

What's the latest?

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

What's the latest?

It is going to be a little bit for the full story Sorry. I had a few people send me tells for games and have taken on yet another that just started. Total of 4 at the moment. The other games have progressed fine. But you are right I can't leave everyone hanging forever. Here is some more eye candy. This game is against a PZ baller with great logistics from last year. Thought I throw this picture out there.

Every single German PZ unit & mobile unit went for Moscow except for 8 left in the south. Here is the Turn 17 picture, more PZs on the southern edge but only posting this picture. enjoy. (Moscow was held btw)

This opponent I played last year and have changed up a great deal of my strategy now Learned a great deal from this game as Soviet. (note Pskov on the mini map ;-P )