EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH)

[EwaldvonKleist]

House Rules
1)Game version 1.10.00 or 1.11.01 and VC290 GC file. I prefer 1.10.00, no matter what side I play. S-T chose Axis and 1.11.01, then updated to 1.11.03 because S-Ts steam does not allow free choice of versions
2)Full (hard) blizzard
3)no +1
4)No paradrops before 04.12.1941, no more than 2 during blizzard, the dropped units must not move on or next to a repaired rail hexagon
5)Game goes until the beginning of march 1942 by default, with an option to continue if both sides agree. Both sides should play as they would if they were going for the long run.
6)Axis side must not use the supply/fuel stocks present in Axis infantry army HQs at the beginning for supplying motorised units if we play under 1.10.00, I consider it to be ok under 1.11.01 So HQ switching is allowed, the huge stocks in infantry army HQs allow the Axis player to give any motorised unit full supplies for one turn independent of the location on the map. I suggested the rule because of the HQ BU nerf, I do not know how and when S-T used it but I think I would play with this again
7)Axis side must drop fuel to an isolated motorised division and move it in the same turn (because there is no MP penalty for airdrops on isolated units)
8)AAR allowed (I will not write one initially)
9)Standard CV calculation
10)Non random weather
11)Server game
12) Player information: I have played several GCs vs humans now , if you are seriously interested in a game I can give you a listing. Judging the own skill level is always difficult (understating it is unfair and on the other hand you do not know what you don't know, so overestimating one's knowledge can easily happen). On the scale beginner-below average-average-good-very good-expert I think I am a very good Axis player and a good to very good Soviet player. I have no problem playing a better opponent, since it motivates one to give everything, makes the game more tense and you learn more this way. In my games I have usually exchanged game knowledge with my opponents liberally, and I would like to do this for that game as well, but it is no "must". I can play 1 turn a week (early to mid July it can drop to 1 turn/1 1/2 week as I have exams there), and I will not quit the game depending on how it plays out unless both sides agree. Of course, there is never a guarantee that RL does not interfere. Pauses due to vacations/heavy workload may happen, but I will keep you informed by E-Mail. I usually have time to play a turn on friday/saturday.
I am more the "complex chess" player type as compared to the "historical player", and I will not complain if you use creative tactics/strategies. When playing the Soviets, you should not have a problem with optimised openings (of course, there is always the possibility that I screw up or of bad RNG rolls). Communication can take place in German or English.
13) Who I am looking for: Very good to expert opponent (good opponent also welcome when playing you want to play Axis under 1.10.00), 1 turn per week on average (no problem if there is a pause because of vacation/heavy work load/family etc.), I will also do
14) I personally do not care much about victory conditions. If you like, we can define some. My personal goal is to make the most of my strengths and weaknesses as a player and play in a way that would either keep me Berlin as long as possible, or lead to a capture as soon as possible if the game goes over the long run.
15) I am happy to play a mirror game under the same conditions running at the same time.
16) There is a severe HQBU cheat that allows to make them for no AP cost. I am willing to trust you on this depending on how good I know you already from the forums. If playing as Axis, I am willing to agree making screenshots that show APs/CR of arm HQs/arm&mot units and their supply states at the beginning and end of every turn as well as making notes of my AP use (+more screenshots if you believe they are necessary). That should allow you to verify whether I play it fair.
17) A change to a new game version always requires the agreement of both sides (dropped because of steam limitations)

[EwaldvonKleist]

Introductory words

First of all some credits to give, first MichaelTs posts which I have always found very interesting, even though I disagree with many things I learned allot from Pelton's writings. Telemecus must be thanked for admin and air force hints (more relevant for the Axis side), HLYA for highlighting the importance of fatigue and for a part of the tactical deployment in the North (though I can claim independent though on the overall strategy).

The AAR will be comparatively short, and yes, also include a small statement on game balance
The game is already 2weeks old so I write from memory.

[EwaldvonKleist]

1st turn


After Axis moves:
SparkleyTits negins with a good solid opening and air field bombing.



After Soviet moves:
In the North I fall one hexagon short of opening the pocket. What units can't be evacuated by rail are disbanded. I probably take more radical actions here than usual. Upon closer investigation, I am somewhat disappointed about the morale and experience rolls of the infantry divisions, of course this is a subjective impression.
The overall strategy will be hard defense in the North with the goal to hold Leningrad, while running quickly in the Center and in the South. The strategy is to defend what is important for long term survival with determination, while giving up resources of low or mid importance, minimising losses due to pockets and the time when Soviets suffer extra losses from combat (until T11 I think). The concept somewhat resembles what is called "all or nothing armor" for ships.

[EwaldvonKleist]

2nd turn


After Soviet moves
I have no screenshot after the Axis moves for some reason.
On the field of unit placement, I make mistakes in the Pskov area, especially for the hexagons West and Northwest of the city, which will become apparent in the next part of the AAR.

In the area Southwest from Riga, encircled units have the option to dislocate Axis FBDs, HQs and airbases while destroying 2 repaired rail hexagons. As I am interested in fighting an Axis player with optimised rail repair, I do not pull the option and only replace a fighter base, which nets some nice losses. Together with air field bombing and missions to fatigue the fighters, 80 Axis fighter aircraft are destroyed. Especially the pilots of the Soviet strategic recon branch extinguish themselves by luring the Axis pilots into a pursuit and subsequent crash from fatigue for no losses to the VVS.

[EwaldvonKleist]

3rd turn


After Axis moves
Last turn I placed a little too much strength to the hexagons east of Pskov and too little to the two hexagons West and Northwest. Of the 3 divisions guarding the hex west of Pskov, the weekest one retreats Norrtheast and this allows S-T to hasty attack over the river before moving an SS division there, the map shows the situation after the successful counterattack.


After Soviet moves
The defense at Pskov is strengthened. The necessary counterattack and the need to build fortifications limtis the amount of untis which can be placed in reserve mode. In the Center I await the Axis and in the South the running continues.

[topeverest]

Love to catch a game at the beginning.

Questions -

House Rules
1)Game version 1.10.00 or 1.11.01 and VC290 GC file. I prefer 1.10.00, no matter what side I play. S-T chose Axis and 1.11.01, then updated to 1.11.03 because S-Ts steam does not allow free choice of versions
2)Full (hard) blizzard
3)no +1
4)No paradrops before 4.12.1941], no more than 2 during blizzard, the dropped units must not move on or next to a repaired rail hexagon

DO you mean 1942?

No sudden death but bitter end? Correct? I am curious your thoughts of stopping the German onslaught before the Volga / Astrakhan. You are not burning units to interdict enemy Moto or Panz. I have not seen a game where the Reds get to Berlin when the enemy penetrates so far. I am interested in your thoughts where you have to stop them to have a chance at Berlin.

Good luck!

[;)]

[wkuh]

Well done portrayal, thanks. Will observe with interest. Good luck to both players.



Bill

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

This defense looks familiar

[MarauderPL]

The defence of Leningrad starts and ends one hex to the NORTHWEST of Pskov

I wonder how did the Germans managed to herd only HQ units to Vilnius turn 1. It allows not to risk the connection to the main Bialystok pocket should a routed unit recuperate. Is there a 100% effective method of doing so, or was that a lucky turn of events?

[EwaldvonKleist]

@topeverest&swkuh: Thanks for the kind words. No, we mean 04.12.1941, the start of the blizzard. A limited amount of paradrops with tactical goals only (no railway cutting) is allowed. The Soviets conducted a few minor air drops during the winter counter offensive.
We play the VC 290. This means there is no forced game end when the Axis side captures 260VPs, so the Soviets have more space to give. The bitter end system has its appeals, but for me the final goal in the game would be to reach Berlin ASAP (if at all). Imagine that the outcome of WW2 is decided by accountants calculating VP ratios.
On the burning of Axis MPs, I will comment later.

@HLYA: See my second post? If you don't mind, please edit your reply, because such huge quotes disrupt the appearance of the AAR, especially as I use multiple images per post.

@Marauder: Indeed, an unfortunate miscalculation from my side, which snowballed into bigger, but not uncontrollable problems later.
About the herding of HQ units to Vilnius, my memory is that you can keep Vilnius combat unit free 50% of all attempts, but I did never try to enforce it, as it had little value for my opening. If you look at the screenshot "after Soviet moves", you can see that there was a combat unit there in this game, unfortunately still routed. After thinking about it, maybe it could speed up the infantry movement. If you want to try this, there might be HQs and airbases which like to displace to Vilnius, so you can push them first there, before a combat unit can rout this way.

[EwaldvonKleist]

4th turn


After Axis moves:
S-T continues his attacks at Pskov, achieving an annoying break in into my defence. Elsewhere the Axis crawls East, hampered by a lack of supplies.


After Soviet moves
I strengthen the defense at Pskov as much as possible, at this time still hoping thy I can create a defense line at the Plyussa.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Turn 5


After Axis moves
S-T crosses the river between the lake Pskov and lake Peipus in the North while attempting a breakthrough at Pskov. I weakened the crossing there last turn in favour of the immediate Pskov front, for some reason not expecting him to have infantry to cross there. With hindsight I wonder why I thought this. However, the enemy operations falls short to encircle the Soviet forces.
Not much of significance happening in the Center and in the South.


After Soviet moves
General Armii Zhukov is tasked with an attack on the motorised division blocking the retreat. The link below shows authentic footage of the moment when he enters the meeting room at Leningrad to present the results to the STAVKA representative for the Northern Direction, even though Western press overstates his rank an position.
General Zhukov


In the Center and the South, Soviet forces follow the official guidelines for proper frontline maintenance, which call for converting back enemy hexagons.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Some theory

Have a look at the diagram below. In an abstracted way, it shows how I view the relation between force ratio, the enemy advance rate and the losses suffered by the Soviets in 1941. The force ratio includes all important factors, beginning with raw CV over leadership to the logistical situation. The idea now is to only accept a fight under the force ratio marked green, while denying it under the force ratio marked red. In other words, either put up a very strong resistance or none, everything between will cause high losses while delaying the Axis insignificantly.

You are not burning units to interdict enemy Moto or Panz. I have not seen a game where the Reds get to Berlin when the enemy penetrates so far. I am interested in your thoughts where you have to stop them to have a chance at Berlin.

I have read of this idea repeatedly, and would like to add a few thoughts to it. In general (exceptions exist) I am sceptical about the idea of burning units to delay the enemy in the early turns of 1941 and later for a number of reasons:
1) I doubt the importance of the early advance rates and measure success of the 1941 campaign in the end result. Any action must be justified by its effect on the latter.
2) Holding a certain city that you know will fall for a few extra turns is not worth it when it includes the risk of losing units. The city of Kiev for example produces 800 men per turn in 1941. Holding it 2 or 3 turns longer does not justify the loss of even a rifle brigade with 5k manpower.
3) Attacking and or/encircling a unit costs the Axis resources during the early turns, but the cost increases the stronger the Red Army becomes and the more East the front moves, as Axis supply deteriorates due to the rail modifier and the distance to the rail.
4) Similiar to 3), the resistance a Soviet unit can put up grows with time. Why should I accept combat during the early turns, with under-supplied, poorly lead units and low unit density?
5) An argument often brought forward is the defence of industry. I however believe that the Soviets need less than the ususally stated amount of industry (usually 200HI and 300arms). I hope to some day finish the report on this.
6) The defence strategy must no be misunderstood as a flight before the fight. It is about shuffling resources to a certain area (it can be Leningrad or a different area) to get into the green zone (see above) for each front. Depending on the overall situation, a total resistance can begin in the Center and the South.
7) When reading AARs involving a good Axis player, you can often see the following pattern: The Soviet player fights forward, initially delays the Axis, but burns a high amount of units in the process. When the breaking point for losses is reached, the Axis player takes the remaining territory easily, because no more resistance is possible. The idea here is to cede the territory you will lose anyway, while avoiding loss of units, so you can form a strong defence later. In short, loss of the Army will cause the loss of the land, the army can still exist after losing a good part of the real estate.
8) Preserving as much of the Army as possible gets you quicker to the point where you can begin the attrition campaign against the Axis manpower. The losses and loss ratio will become the batter the greater the ratio Soviet strength:Axis strength.

This was both a reply on your question and a general thought I wanted to present anyway.
Nothing of this is a law of nature, but I like to have a framework of theories which helps me to access the infinitely different situations on the battlefield.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: MarauderPL
I wonder how did the Germans managed to herd only HQ units to Vilnius turn 1. It allows not to risk the connection to the main Bialystok pocket should a routed unit recuperate. Is there a 100% effective method of doing so, or was that a lucky turn of events?

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
@Marauder:...About the herding of HQ units to Vilnius, my memory is that you can keep Vilnius combat unit free 50% of all attempts, but I did never try to enforce it, as it had little value for my opening. If you look at the screenshot "after Soviet moves", you can see that there was a combat unit there in this game, unfortunately still routed. After thinking about it, maybe it could speed up the infantry movement. If you want to try this, there might be HQs and airbases which like to displace to Vilnius, so you can push them first there, before a combat unit can rout this way.

This has often happened to me - too often to be a coincidence. It was not deliberate on my part but may be a consequence of the opening play I use. I guess if you plan for it you can at least sequence your moves to maximise the chances of it happening.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
The link below shows authentic footage of the moment when he enters the meeting room at Leningrad to present the results to the STAVKA representative for the Northern Direction, even though Western press overstates his rank an position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DxClgfEhsU

Please link many more videos like this - I am looking for material to re-subtitle and parody especially! [:D]

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Some theory

+1 like and please post much more theory! [:)]

I love doing graphs with no scales too! [:D]

[EwaldvonKleist]

@Telemecus: The movie the scene is taken from, The Death of Stalin, requires a certain humour, but if it suits you it is simply great.
Somewhere it has been banned, pratially because Zhukov was deemed to be described foolish. Why is beyond me, for he is the most "badass" character in the film!

Yes, I like developing theories. Sometimes they are even useful.

My teachers in school did not like them, I wonder why

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

@Telemecus: The movie the scene is taken from, The Death of Stalin, requires a certain humour, but if it suits you it is simply great.
Somewhere it has been banned, pratially because Zhukov was deemed to be described foolish. Why is beyond me, for he is the most "badass" character in the film!

Yes, I like developing theories. Sometimes they are even useful.

My teachers in school did not like them, I wonder why

Anything by Armando Iannucci is worth seeing - but the British sense of humour is often misunderstood.

Teachers never like students smarter than them! [:D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ag61WDlPJU

As the French civil servant said "Yes it may work very well in practice, but does it work in theory?" [:D]

[AFV]

I am curious- with all the talk of the German side being overpowered, why no +1 attack for the Soviet in this game?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: AFV
I am curious- with all the talk of the German side being overpowered, why no +1 attack for the Soviet in this game?

Because the majority is silent [:)]