Balance discussion

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Has anyone tried adjusting the difficulty settings? My understanding is that these allow you to a) increase soviet morale b) speed up soviet digging and c) reduce axis logistics capabilities. Could this be a way of not only improving overall balance but also enabling two players of differing abilities to 'handicap' their game so that it has more prospect of lasting long term?

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Nada

[EwaldvonKleist]

Adding manpower production is a 1 min Thing in the editor. Adding Manpower to An offmap location will have the desired effect.

[56ajax]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Adding manpower production is a 1 min Thing in the editor. Adding Manpower to An offmap location will have the desired effect.

And I think you can start the game with a large number as disabled.

[thedoctorking]

Maybe we should try to come up with a balanced scenario. Mess with the Russian deployment a little bit to increase the difficulty of the bigger pockets (Lvov and super-Lvov are both bigger than the historical German accomplishments in that sector) and increase Russian manpower production to historical levels. Might want to increase German manpower production in the later years as well.

[chaos45]

they did increase German manpower production in the later years was several patches ago...but not many games have really made it past 1941 lately due to the balance issues in 1941.

[56ajax]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Maybe we should try to come up with a balanced scenario. Mess with the Russian deployment a little bit to increase the difficulty of the bigger pockets (Lvov and super-Lvov are both bigger than the historical German accomplishments in that sector) and increase Russian manpower production to historical levels. Might want to increase German manpower production in the later years as well.

Size of pockets can be restricted by House Rules but we should unfreeze those units that become active after they are pocketed.

[timmyab]

Mess with the Russian deployment a little bit to increase the difficulty of the bigger pockets

I think that's a good idea. It would be a simple task to prevent the super Lvov and even the plain old Lvov could be made difficult with the prospect of less Soviet units pocketed.

[Dreamslayer]

I tried to find a latest AARs in those RKKA hold a "historical line" (Sevastopol-Rostov-Voroshilovgrad-Tula-Moscow-Leningrad) on 1 December,1941(before blizzard starts in the game). It's boring and still unsuccessfull.

[thedoctorking]

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

I tried to find a latest AARs in those RKKA hold a "historical line" (Sevastopol-Rostov-Voroshilovgrad-Tula-Moscow-Leningrad) on 1 December,1941(before blizzard starts in the game). It's boring and still unsuccessfull.

Try our Connect4 AAR. We're having a blast, don't know about the Axis [:D]

Turn 17, we hold Sevastopol, Stalino, Kharkov, Orel, Moscow, Leningrad. So slightly better than historical.

[Dreamslayer]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

I tried to find a latest AARs in those RKKA hold a "historical line" (Sevastopol-Rostov-Voroshilovgrad-Tula-Moscow-Leningrad) on 1 December,1941(before blizzard starts in the game). It's boring and still unsuccessfull.

Try our Connect4 AAR. We're having a blast, don't know about the Axis [:D]

Turn 17, we hold Sevastopol, Stalino, Kharkov, Orel, Moscow, Leningrad. So slightly better than historical.

But there is last map about T10, also it's a random weather.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Try our Connect4 AAR. We're having a blast, don't know about the Axis [:D]

Turn 17, we hold Sevastopol, Stalino, Kharkov, Orel, Moscow, Leningrad. So slightly better than historical.

Well I would say it is fun. I guess it depends on if your enjoyment is from being the "winner" or from having interesting situations though.

The Connect 4 team game was set up for beginners as ground commanders - and from what I have seen elsewhere is fairly typical. You will not see it usually in AARs because beginners do not usually do AARs. But if you do go back in the AAR list there are a few with the same results.

I would repeat what I have said elsewhere. 90% of games are by players who never reach these goals. 90% of players are new to the game. Many are so put off at the difficulty of playing Axis they never come back again. So making it more difficult will close the gateway to more players joining later on. The AARs you see are typically of the more experienced who have a better grasp of the game mechanics. The balance discussion as I understand it really relates to that group.

[chaos45]

ya the connect four game where a German player didn't commit an entire army due to thinking the Soviets could possibly counter-attack lol.....

Not exactly a good example of game balance, as no German player that has played the game before will leave an army uncommitted for any length of time in 1941 as after a game or two they will quickly realize the Soviets have no ability to counterattack at anything more than an exposed regiment or extremely exposed division that they can get several stacks on to get a push back. Even then the Soviets will take so many losses from that 1 small attack that the next turn the Germans can easily decimate all those formations--as they will take 1k+ losses and usually massive amounts more than that damaged and disrupted which makes them easy wins on the German turn.

Not trying to be offensive but balance is designed around decently competent play by both sides based on the games rules and design.

[Neogodhobo]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

ya the connect four game where a German player didn't commit an entire army due to thinking the Soviets could possibly counter-attack lol.....

Not exactly a good example of game balance, as no German player that has played the game before will leave an army uncommitted for any length of time in 1941 as after a game or two they will quickly realize the Soviets have no ability to counterattack at anything more than an exposed regiment or extremely exposed division that they can get several stacks on to get a push back. Even then the Soviets will take so many losses from that 1 small attack that the next turn the Germans can easily decimate all those formations--as they will take 1k+ losses and usually massive amounts more than that damaged and disrupted which makes them easy wins on the German turn.

Not trying to be offensive but balance is designed around decently competent play by both sides based on the games rules and design.

Balance... What is balance in a war game... Utter bullshit. War isn't balanced, war is pitting a hundreds of officers against each others hoping that yours are going to be better than the others.

How boring would a game be if you could only fight against people of your own caliber. Especially a Wargame simulator.

We started the 2by3+ game with experienced players in the axis side and complete newbies in the Soviet side. Just to make it more historical. Where was the balance in that ? There wasnt any. And it is extremely fun like this, we got destroyed ( but still fighting valiantly ).

I hate balance. Balance isn't fun. Balance is for people who prefer playing in their own safety bubble. Make sure there isn't any surprise. Making sure, they wouldn't ever fight against a person better than they are, or someone who has more knowledge than they do.

Is this really a wargame simulator ? or is this a hand holder simulator ?


One thing I know for sure, is that the more balance the game is, the more boring it is.

Exhibit A : "ya the connect four game where a German player didn't commit an entire army due to thinking the Soviets could possibly counter-attack lol....."

Well I bet no one expected that to happened. Bringing originality and new things to the plate, instead of the same old boring tactic everyone always use. It brings something that is out of the box. If your only goal in playing, is to crush your opponent. Then, please, play the conventional boring way. If your goal is to have fun and try new things, then play an unbalance game.

As far as Im concerned, war isn't balanced, never was. Dont know why we should try to put balance into a Wargame simulator.

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
Try our Connect4 AAR. We're having a blast, don't know about the Axis [:D]

Turn 17, we hold Sevastopol, Stalino, Kharkov, Orel, Moscow, Leningrad. So slightly better than historical.

And the connect 4 game is fricken awesome, Im loving playing it. Trying new tactics in order to surprise my opponent ( wich ended in total failure but I think I would have made better if I have had access to my armies from turn 1 )

I cant speak for others, but Im having a blast in the C4 game. And playing against my own general ( from another game ) is pretty cool too. The Soviets are doing very good, and I cant wait for revenge in the summer of 42. I cant wait to fight a desperate battle in the summer of 45. I cant wait to decide, which divisions to sacrifice in fortress cities.

This game in massive multiplayer, is just fricken awesome. Its too bad there is some people out there who try to ruin it for others. Who try to talk shit about it and make it look scary to newcomers who would want to try to join such games. It just destroy the community little by little.

Complaining leads to nothing. The best way is to make due with what we have.


Okay so there is balance problems in the game apparently ? So fucking what. Tell your mommy to hold your hand and keep pushing trough the mud. Kill as many Germans/soviets while your at it. Of course you can write to the developers and complaint about it. Or, you can create your own game. But complaining about it to the players is such a huge waste of time, its a downer for everyone on top of it.


Games cant be perfect, never gonna happen, there will always be someone who thinks this is unbalance, and that is unbalance, and, maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong, maybe we could do this, or maybe we could do that. Instead of playing the game and having fun with what we are lucky enough to get, we could spend 3 years arguing and mopping around like headless ducks in a storm.

Or we could just start to have some fucking fun. Forget about the technicalities, and play the game to have fun, rather than trying to be number one. Rather than trying to find excuses about why people leave, why people dont want to join new games.

You people really suck when it comes down to recruiting people. How the hell do you want people to have fun and wanting to join new games when all you guys do is complaint. Why dont you uninstall the game and leave the happy campers to start great fires amidst the rain ?

I was at work the other day ( work in the middle of the forest in the middle of fucking nowhere), and I wanted to make a fire, but it started to snow, and snow, and snow. The next morning, there was so much snow I could barely walk around. And we were in September. It was unseen before, one could call it... pretty unbalanced. Of course I could have just stay inside and whine about how that wouldn't usually happen, about how the weather is fucked up, about how not normal it is. My wife did exactly just that. And I said to myself, who gives a shit about the snow, I can still make a fire. I want outside and I threw the snow out of my fire pit, and I made a goddamn fire that went so far up in the sky, I was worried the wood would burn down.

My wife came out of the cabin and joined me and we cooked breakfast outside in the snow.
Now, we can all sit around in the cabin and whine about the unbalanced things of life. Or we can just go outside and play the goddamn game in the snow.

My wife was complaining inside that we couldnt do anything today... I went out and made this :




She then joined me and we had lots of fun :

[Neogodhobo]

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[Dreamslayer]

What is balance in wargames?
It's means each side has chances to performs better than historically. Let's look at these chances in the current patch reallity.
Let our "check-line" will be historical front-line on 1 Dec 1941. It's a Sevastopol-Rostov-Voroshilovgrad-Tula-Moscow-Leningrad(all these objectives on this date are under Soviet control).
In 1941 before blizzard debuff can Germans performs better than historically? Yes, look in AAR section there are many examples of it.
Can Soviet side performs better (or even similar - hold line,no more)before blizzard debuff? Correct answer is NO.

[Neogodhobo]

So then you choose to become a complainer that will sit all winter inside. Good for you, Il choose to play outside. We could whine and complaint all year long about video games. You can choose not to play the game and spend your time whining if you want.

I prefer spending my time playing, rather than complaining. To each its own I guess.

[Dreamslayer]

Neogodhobo, I don't care about what are you choose ever if your best argument is only " **** ".

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Nada

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Nada