Can't Figure Out Air Range Rules

[TheMelancholyDonkey]

I'm trying to plan air missions, and it simply doesn't make sense. The system of fighter ranges seems to be full of glitches.

1) There are a lot of times that it says Out of Range when I try to fly escorts but I can fly Superiority missions that cover the same area. I'd think this would be do to the rules that the escort range is shorter than the combat range. Except that I'm flying the mission within the green circle that is supposed to represent the escort range. In practice, the range for combat missions is represented by the green circle, and the escort range is some undefined amount less than that.

2) Drop tanks seem to be useless. I select the 75g drop tank load out. This expands the green circle radius by a whopping two hexes, which is a lot less than the load out info says it should increase. But that doesn't matter, because I cannot actually fly missions any farther than I could without the load out. The range of a Superiority mission now stops two hexes short of the green circle, which is supposed to represent the escort range.

3) The AI keeps trying to use really stupid staging bases. If I don't stay on top of it, units don't participate in missions because of the added distance. This isn't a one time thing. I can select a better staging point, and then the AI reinstitutes the dumb one unless I manually change it every turn that I want to use the same directive. It's frustrating to have to constantly police this.

4) The information provided by the No Fly Info checkbox often seems to be inaccurate. There are times it says Out of Range when that clearly isn't the case. I can often send the same unit on the same mission that it was Out of Range for on the next turn.

Bomber ranges seem to work better than fighter ranges. I'm just so frustrated at trying to figure this out.

[Zovs]

Maybe some screenshots can help illustrate your questions?

[TheMelancholyDonkey]

All of these shots are for the 4th USAAF FB Group, based at Martlesham Heath (87,172), flying P-47D-5 Thunderbolts on 3-hex radius Superiority missions into the Netherlands. First up is a shot of the range radii without drop tanks:

01 Range - No Tanks.png (2.46 MiB) Viewed 1716 times

Next is a shot of the radii with drop tanks. Note that the range has increased by two hexes:

02 Range - With Tanks.png (2.54 MiB) Viewed 1716 times

Here is a shot of an allowable Superiority mission, without tanks:

03 Allowable Superiority Mission - No Tanks.png (2.39 MiB) Viewed 1716 times

This is the same mission, moved one hex east to show the limit of how far the planes can go. Note that this is the boundary of the green circle in the first screenshot:

04 Not Allowable Superiority Mission - No Tanks.png (2.36 MiB) Viewed 1716 times

[TheMelancholyDonkey]

New post, since I hit the size limit.

This shot shows an allowable mission with drop tanks. It is now allowing this two hexes to the east, which it was not doing before. I have no idea what I did differently:

05 Allowable Superiority Mission - With Tanks.png (2.5 MiB) Viewed 1714 times

Lastly, this is the same mission with drop tanks, centered one hex farther east and now no longer allowd:

06 Not Allowable Superiority Mission - With Tanks.png (2.46 MiB) Viewed 1714 times

As I said, all of these missions are bounded by the green circle in the first two images, even though the rulebook says that the combat radius is defined by the purple circle. And note that the drop tanks add two hexes to how far they can fly, despite this being much less than the 469 miles the tanks are supposed to add to the range. It's less than 10% of that figure.

[Zovs]

I am not an expert in WITW but am in WITE2 (well as much as you can be after 4 years of testing, others are way better than I), but in WITE2 you can move/stage AOG closer prior to execution of the air phase. Can you do that and see if it improves?

Which scenario you playing?

[TheMelancholyDonkey]

I can't find anything in the rules about extending range through staging. In WitW, a staging base is just where the groups assemble in the air before flying a mission, Even if there were such an option, it wouldn't apply here, since the group is already based just about as close to the North Sea as possible, so there aren't any bases at which they could do so.

I'm playing the 1943-45 Campaign scenario.

[Zovs]

If no one else pitches in, I’ll try to have a look tomorrow. Is this vs the AI? Maybe if you have a save before the execution phase I can take a look?

In WITE2 you can rebase fighters for example to get them in better range, I figured you could do the same with WITW.

[TheMelancholyDonkey]

I have a save, but it saying that it's an invalid file extension to attach to a post.

Thanks.

[Zovs]

You can pm the file zipped up maybe? Or email it to me


zovs66
AT (use the symbol)
Gmail
DOT
Com

[TheMelancholyDonkey]

I think the zip file option worked.

[TheMelancholyDonkey]

I got the game far enough along that new aircraft models (P-47D-15 and P-38J) and new, larger drop tanks are available, and these make a bigger difference. I still don't think they add as much range as the load out information says they should, but it at least makes them useful. Maybe something about the P-47D-5 prevents the drop tanks from being fully effective; whether that would be a glitch in the game, or that that model of plane didn't get much advantage from them in real life, I have no idea.

[Zovs]

Well I am no expert, I did manage to create two new AD as GA, and a AS but it looks like the AS is empty.

This screenshot is with just the one added GA near the SS unit, it seems fighter coverage is okay, I did only change the P-47 to use drop tanks and did not see any extra improvement. (can't seem to get my screenshot to load)

I am by far better on the East Front and know WITE2 Air War much better (I wrote a manual first turn for it for folks) but it seems part of the UI here is a bit different.

I last played the Cobra scenario earlier this year, but have not delved too deep into WITW. Perhaps I should.

Wish I could be of more help.

I'll keep tinkering away and if anything comes to light I'll share.

Oh, you may get a better response on the GG 40 Discord WITW channel.

[MarkShot]

Perhaps late but in WITx STAGING means the form up base of an air directive. You want TRANSFER.

Actually, what you want to do when starting on turn one unless special like Germans in WITE-2 ... you want to transfer air groups to bases closer to the action; especial short range aircraft like F & FB & TB ... 4 engine bombers do fine from England.

There is one issue when stepping aircraft. Like everything, they require supply. In the rear, supply is plentiful. But on the forward edge your air assets will be in close competition with your ground forces. So, it may make sense in a campaign to build out ports, railyards, supply, and depots before stepping up your air bases.

[Saturn V]

Late reply here as well, but keep in mind that range and combat radius are two different things. In the game, the combat radius is one-third of the aircraft's range. When fighters are acting as bomber escorts, the escort radius is reduced further to three-quarters of the combat radius.

Below are the combat radius figures for the P-47D-5 as calculated from the data in the game files.

Internal fuel only: 286 miles (214 miles as an escort)
With a 75-gallon drop tank: 312 miles (234 miles as an escort)
With a 108-gallon drop tank: 341 miles (255 miles as an escort)
With a 150-gallon drop tank: 374 miles (280 miles as an escort)

Calculating the base range and radius for any aircraft in the game is easy. All you need are the aircraft's endurance rating and cruise speed. The formula is:

(endurance/60)*cruise speed

That gives you the range. Divide that result by three (dropping any fractions) to determine the combat radius. The escort radius is three-quarters of the combat radius (dropping any fractions).

Here is the calculation for the P-47D-5 (endurance, 215; cruise speed, 240 mph):

(215/60)*240 = 860 miles range
860/3 = 286 miles combat radius
286*0.75 = 214 miles escort radius

These base figures are then modified based on the load out, if any, carried by the aircraft.