Airfield bombing just doesn't make sense

[Metalist]

I really do not understand how air war should be conducted and it's getting to my nerves.

It seems to me Allied airfield bombing is just unstoppable. I tried making flak concentrations and parking my planes there, no it did not work. Dispersing them, this time amount of flak each city receives decrease inevitably and again I suffer many losses. Air interception? Forget about it, my fighters only engage enemy strategic bombers and escorts, and as my other thread shows they lose aircraft 7-8 times more. I could never make them engage enemy bombers that bomb my units either, Allied Air Force just do as they please.

The last turn they destroyed on the ground something like 70 aircraft alone in Berlin!

I mean I do not really know how air war was conducted historically, but this looks rather lame to me.

[Zovs]

You do realize that this is exactly what happened in real life?

[Metalist]

I'm posting the losses suffered by the Luftwaffe for a 15 month period, it is the grand campaign and now it is June 1944. As you can see almost 1/5 of the losses (3200) are classified as the lost on the ground. If this is something historical, I'd appreciate a historical data so that I would be less annoyed. I also attach a screenshot that explains what is happening very frequently: I carry my aircraft to an airfield close to the frontier. In a few turns my opponent notices this and destroys them in one turn. As I said in the first post it does not even have to be in the frontier, Berlin airfields are not safe either. Were such raids as common and effective as this?

[Zovs]

From your first screen shot the losses are listed as:

German
Air Combat = 8,887
Flak = 258
Lost on Ground = 3,213
Operational = 5,358
Total = 17,716

Allied
Air Combat = 11,356
Flak = 5,369
Lost on Ground = 18
Operational = 11,176
Total = 27,937

Seems quite reasonable to me, in fact your doing a much better exchange rate then the Allies so I don't know why your complaining about your losses when you are inflicting a great casualty rate then your receiving. Historically I think your losses should be more.

Second screenshot seems reasonable, no issues.

Third screenshot again no issues.

For both the last two you have planes just sitting on the ground and the airfield was bombed, I don't see why you think that is not to be expected.

[Zovs]

I'm posting the losses suffered by the Luftwaffe for a 15 month period, it is the grand campaign and now it is June 1944. As you can see almost 1/5 of the losses (3200) are classified as the lost on the ground. If this is something historical, I'd appreciate a historical data so that I would be less annoyed. I also attach a screenshot that explains what is happening very frequently: I carry my aircraft to an airfield close to the frontier. In a few turns my opponent notices this and destroys them in one turn. As I said in the first post it does not even have to be in the frontier, Berlin airfields are not safe either. Were such raids as common and effective as this?

Let me put it another way. Your not looking at the math correctly.

Rounding up your percentages of losses versus the Allies, we can surmise the following:

Your total air to air combat losses are 50% of your total losses (50.163693836080384).
Your total lost on the ground losses are 18% of your total losses (18.136148114698578).
Your total operational losses are 30% of your total losses(30.24384736960939).

Your total losses versus those of the Allies are 38% (38.80577399075636) meaning the Allies losses are 61% (61.19422600924365).

So the conclusion is that only 18% of your air losses were lost on the ground, while 50% were lost in air to air combat, and 30% were operational losses. You are inflicting a much higher loss rate against the Allies, you could say it like this: So far you have lost 38% of your airforce while the Allies losses ratio is 61%.

[loki100]

I'm posting the losses suffered by the Luftwaffe for a 15 month period, it is the grand campaign and now it is June 1944. As you can see almost 1/5 of the losses (3200) are classified as the lost on the ground. If this is something historical, I'd appreciate a historical data so that I would be less annoyed. I also attach a screenshot that explains what is happening very frequently: I carry my aircraft to an airfield close to the frontier. In a few turns my opponent notices this and destroys them in one turn. As I said in the first post it does not even have to be in the frontier, Berlin airfields are not safe either. Were such raids as common and effective as this?

you are making a lot of mistakes and getting punished for it.

why is the LW deployed at airbases around Paris? The AI does this but its an utter waste, it allows the allies to use the short range 1943 spitfires to deadly effect and you are not protecting anything. Get the fighters back into the Reich or in Italy where they make a difference.

Axis losses will include Italian losses and if I recall that produces a lot of lost on the ground at surrender

The LW essentially has 2 roles. In 1943 you can win local/short term in Italy and use the threat to make the Allied player cautious over their pattern of landings. At the same time inflicting damage on allied bombers trashes their morale, the allied player should rest low morale bombers so basically you slow the impact of bombing (which is also why over time leave night defence to flak)

by mid-44, there should be no German planes in N France, D-Day is going to see them obliterated, you have to hide till the allies exhaust their 2-3 mass commitment. Equally once the US gets P-51s they will mostly dominate the skies over the Reich. So you need to organise to win locally, get this right and an allied Bomber raid will get hit badly (=low morale = rest)

look at the AARs, Xhoel wrote a brilliant one from the Axis PoV, there are plenty that give a good feel for how to handle the wider air war

[Metalist]

Seems quite reasonable to me, in fact your doing a much better exchange rate then the Allies so I don't know why your complaining about your losses when you are inflicting a great casualty rate then your receiving. Historically I think your losses should be more.

Second screenshot seems reasonable, no issues.

Third screenshot again no issues.

For both the last two you have planes just sitting on the ground and the airfield was bombed, I don't see why you think that is not to be expected.

The fact that my losses are less than historical does not change the fact I am receiving many losses on the ground, that's why I wanted to talk in terms of ratio not just numbers. To support your point I think you have to come up with a historical data that shows German losses on the ground are close to %18 of their total losses.

I put these two screenshots to point out that in 4 days of bombing an airfield lost its entire aircraft (68 planes). Is this normal? I did not get your last point, planes have to sit on the ground at some point, and of course they can lose some planes to raids, I am concerned about the immensity of it. I am attaching a screenshot to show LW's decreasing numbers, so I am not particularly happy because Allies are losing more, as they have capacity to replenish them.

I brought some air groups to France when D-Day happened to support my ground units. But even if I keep them in the back, as I showed in my original post, Allies can even bomb airfields of Berlin and destroy everything there (70 planes in one turn).


All in all, my biggest concern is that I just cannot find a counter to airfield bombing at all. If the problem was in A2A, I could different methods like trying to modify experience level of my air groups as suggested in a different thread. In that case at least my units die fighting. But in airfield bombing they just come, destroy everything and leave, without me having a chance to react. If you say that's the way it is well okay but your solutions are not effective for me, as one is just using numbers to give a brighter picture in overall while my problem is more specific and the other is defeating the purpose as it just tells me not to use LW when it is most needed.

[loki100]

well I've used and suffered from airbase bombing in a lot of games but its never been a big issue.

so some suggestions, if you are using unavoidable airbases then make sure you move in flak. A high level HQ with suitable support units will do the trick. That flak may not kill much but will inflict a lot of damage and, as ever, damage=low morale=can't be used till recovered. In the early game there is a group of large airbases in S Italy that an axis player really must use if they are to contest any second wave allied invasions. After that, its rare for the axis player to be constrained to a few locations so move your airgroups around. Anywhere in a big city area in the Reich should be safe due to the city flak.

Don't commit all your fighters to fully use up their air miles in the active phases. Something kept back fresh will do an excellent CAP job

there is literally nothing you can do about the tactical air power that the allies can deploy for the 2-3 turns post d-day. Any competent allied player will have everything rested and ready and can sustain a massive commitment over the key turns. Anything you commit dies. So don't play their game, instead pull back. The LW can win small in the sequence of battles along E France simply as the allies can't concentrate and struggle to get their shorter range stuff into action. So thats where you should fight. This runs across the game, pick your battles, and go in heavy handed. Don't fritter stuff away.

there is a fundamental mindset to playing the axis in WiTW. You have finite resources, the allies have finite time. So make your resources cost them time, if its not doing that then you are playing straight into their hands