Round 1 2vs2 rjh1971/a511 vs Polonthi/Tica

[tcart]

Re Mr Quiet's post, it certainly seems that way. It's worth noting, though, that Phil got over the victory level on his first turn. But there was no way the Russians could hold all of their newly-gained ground in the face of a prepared NATO, and once an autovictory wasn't in the cards the Allied strategic bombing soon made the game very one-sided indeed.

[tcart]

NATO Spring 47
Looks like the end is nigh for the Communists. Strategic bombing destroys the remaining Soviet factories. Russia now has zero industry.
In the Far East we capture Manchuria and have enough troops left over to land in Tokyo. In the Middle East our combined forces push to the Turkish border. In Europe we capture Austria and Yugoslavia and land once more in Greece. With virtually unlimited production the Allies can churn out ART at a high pace, which in turn allows us to garrison newly liberated areas with enough force to make counterattacks prohibitively expensive. I'm guessing that supplying the borders of his empire is now tough, too, as the Russia rail lines have been greatly damaged.

[rjh1971]

So this is what it's going to be like against a511 [:D][:D][:D]

Great to read this WW3 AAR.

[Petiloup]

Well RJH1971, I don't want to be mean but I think it might be worst [:(] Anthony starts in Korea, Rumania, Turkey, Norway, Southern Persia already so he can strikes at mother Russia on turn 1. Good point for you is that you have a bunch of fighters. That might have been my mistake but then I wouldn't have had enough troops to attack.

It really looks like WW3 just after crushing the Axis is a bad move for Russia. Think we tend to forget that the US had 2 atoms bomb and nothing more by 1945 and bombing factories didn't stop Germany to produce way way more tanks, planes and so on in 1944 than anytime before. What they really needed is manpower at the end. Well I don't say bombing was useless but that all my industry is gone in less than 1 year is preposterous.

Waiting for the end now.

[Petiloup]

ORIGINAL: MrQuiet

It seems to be starting to look like any game that continues into ww3 will have the WA at a extreme advantage in both production and air power.

The problem is that the WA can bomb Russia while Russia can't dream to touch North America. Now the main issue I think is that in any WW2 game Russia is likely to be the target of an invasion and so needs to rebuild his country as well while the US goes stronger by each passing turn. At the end of WW2 the WA had to disarm fast because being democracies while Russia could keep his armed forces mostly intact and begin to pillage Europe for ressources. Without the A-Bomb there would have been a good chance of USSR going for World domination in the early 50's.

What could be more fair is to cut WA armed forces at the end of WW2 and make is start like what it seems a few turns later.

[Petiloup]

Not waiting for long.

[Petiloup]

Very weird sense of humor... [8|]

[rjh1971]

ORIGINAL: Polonthi

Well RJH1971, I don't want to be mean but I think it might be worst [:(] Anthony starts in Korea, Rumania, Turkey, Norway, Southern Persia already so he can strikes at mother Russia on turn 1. Good point for you is that you have a bunch of fighters. That might have been my mistake but then I wouldn't have had enough troops to attack.

I know it's going to be far worse, as I stated in the other AAR, a511 has prepared himself very well making progress in R&D, building units and positioning himself before finishing off Japan (tell fcam), Russia is like Gruyere cheese or a strainer, She has wholes everywhere and so can be hit anywhere. If you have seen my post I don't expect to live for long [:(]

[MrQuiet]

Do you guys think it would be better for the tournament that any Alied team that gets a win continues on to WWIII with the stock WWIII scenario? It looks to me like there is never going to be a way for RU to compete in any continuation games.
 
MrQuiet

[Avatar47]

The problem is that the post-war scenario depends so heavily on what happened during the war. As the WAllied player KNOWS that he'll have a WW3 to deal with, it's definitely in his best interests not to give Russia any supply. Furthermore, if Germany decides to devote most of his resources to the east front, then that's a big hamper to russian expansion as well, as units are lost in the conflict.
 
However, the campaign objectives are all within short reach of the USSR. My guess (i haven't played the scenario yet) is that Russia has to plan for a 2-3 round aggressive campaign to quickly secure the objectives for an AV, otherwise the weight of the WAllies is felt too much.

[Petiloup]

Well Avatar47 you are right it's what Russia should do and it's what I tried.

I had strong defensive position in the Middle East with Turkey controlled. I had the whole of Scandinavia. I was in Italy and in Southern France which is far from being easy to achieve for the Russian. I manage to strike at Japan on turn 1 by making it impossible to be reinforced just before the end of WW2. And still I was overunned.

So not only you need a strong starting position but more troops then the allies and even so he could invade almost anywhere to deny you the Auto Victory. If the allied can do that then it's just a question of time.

Russia can't use ressources in WW2 to be ready to compete to control the seas in WW3. It can manage an airforce but it will be at the expense of the ground troops with no guarantee to match the US quality.

I see 2 things I might have done wrong. 1/ To rebuild the infrastructure too much instead of doing research and then stockpile supplies for 2-3 turns of fight as you said. 2/ Finishing Germany sooner but then I might not had the time to take out all those territories I did.

To answer the Mr. Quiet that or we give it a shot to see if it's truly impossible for Russia. Seems to me that in our game Germany will not stay much longer in the fight and with as the UK was out of the fight for sometime and my campaign in Russia not very destructive that you might have the best chance to achieve something with Russia. If you can't then there is surely a problem. After that you can always decide not to do WW3 anymore or to continue as it is or to redo those with the included "EastvsWest" scenario.

[rjh1971]

ORIGINAL: Polonthi


Well Avatar47 you are right it's what Russia should do and it's what I tried.

I had strong defensive position in the Middle East with Turkey controlled. I had the whole of Scandinavia. I was in Italy and in Southern France which is far from being easy to achieve for the Russian. I manage to strike at Japan on turn 1 by making it impossible to be reinforced just before the end of WW2. And still I was overunned.

So not only you need a strong starting position but more troops then the allies and even so he could invade almost anywhere to deny you the Auto Victory. If the allied can do that then it's just a question of time.

Russia can't use ressources in WW2 to be ready to compete to control the seas in WW3. It can manage an airforce but it will be at the expense of the ground troops with no guarantee to match the US quality.

I see 2 things I might have done wrong. 1/ To rebuild the infrastructure too much instead of doing research and then stockpile supplies for 2-3 turns of fight as you said. 2/ Finishing Germany sooner but then I might not had the time to take out all those territories I did.

To answer the Mr. Quiet that or we give it a shot to see if it's truly impossible for Russia. Seems to me that in our game Germany will not stay much longer in the fight and with as the UK was out of the fight for sometime and my campaign in Russia not very destructive that you might have the best chance to achieve something with Russia. If you can't then there is surely a problem. After that you can always decide not to do WW3 anymore or to continue as it is or to redo those with the included "EastvsWest" scenario.

IMO you should have gone directly for Germany, have in mind that almost all Victory points are in Central Europe, so maybe it's not a good idea to lose time invading Turkey, Saudi Arabia and such places, the soviets race is against time they've got to crush the WA before they manage a full production, also as you pointed out the Campaign in Russia was a disaster for Germany so you didn't have the rebuilding problem.

[Petiloup]

[/quote]

IMO you should have gone directly for Germany, have in mind that almost all Victory points are in Central Europe, so maybe it's not a good idea to lose time invading Turkey, Saudi Arabia and such places, the soviets race is against time they've got to crush the WA before they manage a full production, also as you pointed out the Campaign in Russia was a disaster for Germany so you didn't have the rebuilding problem.

[/quote]

I'm not so sure. Attacking Germany alone with Russia means giving free regions to the Wallies once Germany surrenders and suffering all the losses. Also I think West Germany goes on the Allied side if not invaded by Russia once Germany surrenders and that's not so easy to do.

Occupying Sweden gave me the opportunity to cut the Baltic partially. Turkey is a mean to free some navy from the Black Sea and to make sure the Black Sea can't be the theater of invasions, Persia is a good springboard against India.

What killed me is that I never had enough troops to use Southern France to threaten the troops in Germany. I was outnumbered there since day 1 and if not it would have been a different story.

Getting West Germany would give me 2 VP while I got 1 VP with Istanbul, Southern France, Northern Italy, Southern Italy, Norway, Southern Persia, Iraq, Western India which is 8 VP in total.

Not forgetting that it's the Allied who decides when to finish the War not Russia as nothing I could do to take out Japan by myself.

[MrQuiet]

Great job showing what happens after WWII
WWIII AAR points
 
Polonthi   3 x .25  =  .75
Tica        3 x .25  =  .75
 
 
Slight change in the WWIII scoreing:
 
(Edit July28 2007) Due to the unbalanced nature of a wwIII continuation game I have cut the East West points in half

Points for East vs West
- Decisive Victory: +15
- Substantive Victory: +10
- Marginal Victory: +7.5
- Draw: +5
- Marginal Defeat: +2.5
- Substantive Defeat: 0
- Decisive Defeat: -5