Stalin recalls his expeditionary force from Turkey; the rest of the Red Army moves forward to engage the outer defenses of the Reich.
Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice UV2.1
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Allied Fall 44 - Eastern Front
Stalin recalls his expeditionary force from Turkey; the rest of the Red Army moves forward to engage the outer defenses of the Reich.
Stalin recalls his expeditionary force from Turkey; the rest of the Red Army moves forward to engage the outer defenses of the Reich.
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Allied Fall 44 - Western Front
Germany is defended by 20 FTRs, 5 LBs. The WA sends a force of 23 FTRs, 4 CAGs, 8 HBs, 4 LBs from England. Casualties run ~ 2:1 in favor of the WA. B-17s from the Med damage 2 German HBs in Austria. The WA completes the conquest of France.
Japan's small Honshu garrison is overrun, completing the conquest of Japan.
Turn sent to Sandeman.
Germany is defended by 20 FTRs, 5 LBs. The WA sends a force of 23 FTRs, 4 CAGs, 8 HBs, 4 LBs from England. Casualties run ~ 2:1 in favor of the WA. B-17s from the Med damage 2 German HBs in Austria. The WA completes the conquest of France.
Japan's small Honshu garrison is overrun, completing the conquest of Japan.
Turn sent to Sandeman.
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Germany Win'45
The German army masses to defend W.Germany and E.Poland. Hopefully the winter will help prevent any major allied success. Notice E.Poland has 56 land units with 11 of them armor which will deny the Russians combined arms (they only have 10 total) should they attack this turn.
Turn sent to SGT Rice
SS shows our E.Poland army.
The German army masses to defend W.Germany and E.Poland. Hopefully the winter will help prevent any major allied success. Notice E.Poland has 56 land units with 11 of them armor which will deny the Russians combined arms (they only have 10 total) should they attack this turn.
Turn sent to SGT Rice
SS shows our E.Poland army.
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Allied Winter 45
The Russians mass several army groups facing the German concentration in Eastern Poland. The Luftwaffe is momentarily cleared from the skies and the WA bomber force rebases to Eastern France. Follow on B-17 strikes score 7 resource hits. The Italian fleet is driven from the Med and WA landings seize Greece and Southern Italy. The WA takes Vichy; the Germans are down to 11 1/2 resources.
Turn sent to Sandeman.
The Russians mass several army groups facing the German concentration in Eastern Poland. The Luftwaffe is momentarily cleared from the skies and the WA bomber force rebases to Eastern France. Follow on B-17 strikes score 7 resource hits. The Italian fleet is driven from the Med and WA landings seize Greece and Southern Italy. The WA takes Vichy; the Germans are down to 11 1/2 resources.
Turn sent to Sandeman.
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Last edited by SGT Rice on Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Axis Spr'45
Germany moves around some troops, but mostly does nothing. 63 units in E.Poland now stand in the way of the red army juggernaut. Maybe they can hold one more turn?
The only combat this turn was me trying to get a cheap kill in the baltic states with an armor unit. Clearly the game does not grant luck to the axis in 1945...
Turn sent to SGT Rice
Germany moves around some troops, but mostly does nothing. 63 units in E.Poland now stand in the way of the red army juggernaut. Maybe they can hold one more turn?
The only combat this turn was me trying to get a cheap kill in the baltic states with an armor unit. Clearly the game does not grant luck to the axis in 1945...
Turn sent to SGT Rice
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Allied Spring 45
The Allies are once again able to use their strategic mobility to good effect. In the Russian turn a Soviet paradrop into unoccupied Hungary allows rapid reconstruction of the rail network through Rumania and establishment of a strong cordon around the huge Wehrmacht army in Eastern Poland. Only Western Poland provides a retreat route for these forces. The Red Air Force sends in Sturmoviks to blast the rail lines in Western Poland, losing 1 TAC in the process, but 2 rail hits are achieved.
During the WA turn, massed TAC air and BB strikes on Denmark damage the 4 ART guarding the straits. WA trannies, BBs and DDs pour through, supporting an invasion by the 4 INF left in Scandinavia. This landing wipes out the 2 MIL, 2 AA defending Western Poland, isolating Germany's armies in the East.
The WA collapse their convoy pipelines in the Pacific, providing sufficient sealift to surge the majority of the troops from Japan (previously staged to India), SE Asia, the Middle East and the United States into Western France. B-17 strikes torch the rails in W. Germany, N. Italy and Yugoslavia. Spoiling attacks on Northern Italy and Yugoslavia fail to take the areas but destroy many Italian militia units.
The Allies are once again able to use their strategic mobility to good effect. In the Russian turn a Soviet paradrop into unoccupied Hungary allows rapid reconstruction of the rail network through Rumania and establishment of a strong cordon around the huge Wehrmacht army in Eastern Poland. Only Western Poland provides a retreat route for these forces. The Red Air Force sends in Sturmoviks to blast the rail lines in Western Poland, losing 1 TAC in the process, but 2 rail hits are achieved.
During the WA turn, massed TAC air and BB strikes on Denmark damage the 4 ART guarding the straits. WA trannies, BBs and DDs pour through, supporting an invasion by the 4 INF left in Scandinavia. This landing wipes out the 2 MIL, 2 AA defending Western Poland, isolating Germany's armies in the East.
The WA collapse their convoy pipelines in the Pacific, providing sufficient sealift to surge the majority of the troops from Japan (previously staged to India), SE Asia, the Middle East and the United States into Western France. B-17 strikes torch the rails in W. Germany, N. Italy and Yugoslavia. Spoiling attacks on Northern Italy and Yugoslavia fail to take the areas but destroy many Italian militia units.
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Axis Sum'45
Bad move #1 Not leaving a couple units in Hungary to keep the para from taking it
Bad move #2 Not leaving any supplies in E.Poland
So now the bulk of my army is stranded... W.Germany still has a decent garrison. Can the allies take it this turn?
Turn sent to SGT Rice
Bad move #1 Not leaving a couple units in Hungary to keep the para from taking it
Bad move #2 Not leaving any supplies in E.Poland
So now the bulk of my army is stranded... W.Germany still has a decent garrison. Can the allies take it this turn?
Turn sent to SGT Rice
RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Allied Summer 45
The Russians don't have much to do ... they march in to Czechoslovakia and Austria for VC purposes.
The WA set up the final offensive with an air attack on the German artillery. This provides a nice example of the new suppression rules at work in a late war setting.
The Germans have invested heavily in AA; they have 8 AA units in W. Germany with anti-air ratings of 9. The target of the WA attack are 8 ART units. The attackers are 8 LBs (7 EV, 8 LA) and 8 HBs (6 EV, 6 LA). The WA lose one LB damaged; suppression results to all involved units are shown in the screen shot. I had considered an invasion to support the main attack to allow lots of BB fire support, but the German ART remains too strong sheltered beneath this powerful AA umbrella.
The Russians don't have much to do ... they march in to Czechoslovakia and Austria for VC purposes.
The WA set up the final offensive with an air attack on the German artillery. This provides a nice example of the new suppression rules at work in a late war setting.
The Germans have invested heavily in AA; they have 8 AA units in W. Germany with anti-air ratings of 9. The target of the WA attack are 8 ART units. The attackers are 8 LBs (7 EV, 8 LA) and 8 HBs (6 EV, 6 LA). The WA lose one LB damaged; suppression results to all involved units are shown in the screen shot. I had considered an invasion to support the main attack to allow lots of BB fire support, but the German ART remains too strong sheltered beneath this powerful AA umbrella.
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Last edited by SGT Rice on Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Allied Summer 45
The final assault; half the WA armor is just off the boat from the US. Germany falls.
The final assault; half the WA armor is just off the boat from the US. Germany falls.
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
This was a highly competitive and very enjoyable match. Many thanks to Lebatron for providing the scenario, MrQ for providing the tourney, and Sandeman for his excellent play.
I will study my opponent's Barbarossa opening as the model for how to do it right. A massed phalanx of armor with abundant air support; right into the center of the Russian defenses, perfectly positioned to threaten everything ... Leningrad, Moscow, Gorki, Stalingrad, Kharkov. I had no choice but to run for my life. My Russian defense used the old 'rope-a-dope' technique (anybody remember Ali-Frazier?); just take the punches and sag all the way back to the Urals. This type of defense looks a little risky under the Global Glory rules; if I'm reading them correctly a Russian surrender could have occured a couple of times in this game (I'll have to do the math to verify).
My initial take on the new suppression rules was that AA units were no longer worth investing in since they rarely shoot down bombers anymore. I'm a little less certain now; when the Germans pushed their AA rating to 8-9 it made things pretty difficult to do heavy damage when the AA defenses were in place. Sandeman probably has a good sense of how worthwhile the AA investment is.
It might be desirable to seed AA research or even raise at start AA values by 1 across the board. The Chinese in particular are in bad shape; it seems like a no-brainer for the Japanese to build HBs, tech them to 4-5 LA and bomb the Chinese to zero production. There's virtually nothing the Chinese can do about it and no risk to the Japanese.
Of course it would seem artificial to give China advanced air defense capabilities. A more elegant solution might be to raise the evasion rating of Chinese factories and resources to 5 or 6; the design rationale being that China employed low-tech, labor-intensive production methods that were more geographically dispersed and harder to target from the air. That would be my only concrete suggestion based on a first playing of UV 2.1.
One last note; the game reported a result of Axis Marginal Victory. My reading of the game manual indicates this is off one level. Is this a bug or did something change?
I will study my opponent's Barbarossa opening as the model for how to do it right. A massed phalanx of armor with abundant air support; right into the center of the Russian defenses, perfectly positioned to threaten everything ... Leningrad, Moscow, Gorki, Stalingrad, Kharkov. I had no choice but to run for my life. My Russian defense used the old 'rope-a-dope' technique (anybody remember Ali-Frazier?); just take the punches and sag all the way back to the Urals. This type of defense looks a little risky under the Global Glory rules; if I'm reading them correctly a Russian surrender could have occured a couple of times in this game (I'll have to do the math to verify).
My initial take on the new suppression rules was that AA units were no longer worth investing in since they rarely shoot down bombers anymore. I'm a little less certain now; when the Germans pushed their AA rating to 8-9 it made things pretty difficult to do heavy damage when the AA defenses were in place. Sandeman probably has a good sense of how worthwhile the AA investment is.
It might be desirable to seed AA research or even raise at start AA values by 1 across the board. The Chinese in particular are in bad shape; it seems like a no-brainer for the Japanese to build HBs, tech them to 4-5 LA and bomb the Chinese to zero production. There's virtually nothing the Chinese can do about it and no risk to the Japanese.
Of course it would seem artificial to give China advanced air defense capabilities. A more elegant solution might be to raise the evasion rating of Chinese factories and resources to 5 or 6; the design rationale being that China employed low-tech, labor-intensive production methods that were more geographically dispersed and harder to target from the air. That would be my only concrete suggestion based on a first playing of UV 2.1.
One last note; the game reported a result of Axis Marginal Victory. My reading of the game manual indicates this is off one level. Is this a bug or did something change?
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Marshall Art
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Congrats SGT Rice, well played Sandeman, IMO the biggest pocket I ever have seen in E. Poland caused a quicker downfall of Germany. [&o]
As far as surrender probabilities go - they should be displayed in the diplomacy screen so you do not need to calculate - Or is this just a GG 3.0 functionality? It would be very interesting to see how close Russia was to surrender.
As far as surrender probabilities go - they should be displayed in the diplomacy screen so you do not need to calculate - Or is this just a GG 3.0 functionality? It would be very interesting to see how close Russia was to surrender.
RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Definitely one of the best games I've played so far, and the first with the new scenario. Hats off to my opponent for keeping the Russians in the war and taking out Japan as rapidly as he did. Not only that but finding a way to trap my huge army at the end was well executed. [&o]
Now I haven't had a chance to play as the Wallies yet, but it seems like the new rules hinder axis play the most... Japan suffers the worst of it with the transport rules forcing them to build more in order to get around the islands (every little ungarrisoned enemy island reduces transport significantly) Also Japan's offensive air power is curtailed in higher production costs for bothfighters and HBs and in the fact that I always seemed to be at max range for my bomber targets. Not that I have a problem with the rules, in fact I enjoyed playing with them, but they just seem to work more against Japan's efforts than anyone else.
As for SGT Rice's comments on AA I agree that raising starting values by 1 (but not the WS) would be a good idea. Tech'ing them up sure helped against TBs and HBs under 6 LA, but once the Wallies hit 6 LA they weren't very effective at all. Even with 3 AA units in E.France at 9 air attack SGT Rice was getting many hits and rarely with any bombers damaged. Maybe it's possible to increase the autohit possibility of only AA fire (from AA units and ships) from 5% to 10%? I mean now its almost a no-risk endeavor to send out bombing runs.
Being a new scenario, I tried a rather different approach than my usual. I figured I'd use the new WR rules to keep the U.S. out as long as possible...but I think I procrastinated too long and ended up giving them too much buildup time both to counter-attack and defend India. I have never seen anyone tech up their CAGs to 4/7/7 before so I was taken by surprise when he attacked me and I couldn't counterstrike. Japan is pretty well defenseless without a good force of CVs and CAGs to keep the U.S. at bay.
With Germany though, my little venture into africa turned out to be a waste of time and supplies. I was a bit surprised that my opponent didn't contest control of the C.Med after I withdrew the afrika corp. I guess he was content to conserve his forces until strong enough to confront me elsewhere. Barbarossa went well, although I must admit his complete withdrawal to the ural/caucasus mountains was frustrating [:@] Russia's strategy was a mixed blessing as allowed me to reach the 77VP watermark as well as keep his armies pinned down, but on the other hand he had a huge force bearing down on me at the end.
Not sure on the victory results, I did hit second watermark but maybe the UV scenario has a different victory time scale...one less than Axis marginal would put the game as a draw. I could live with that [8D]
Now I haven't had a chance to play as the Wallies yet, but it seems like the new rules hinder axis play the most... Japan suffers the worst of it with the transport rules forcing them to build more in order to get around the islands (every little ungarrisoned enemy island reduces transport significantly) Also Japan's offensive air power is curtailed in higher production costs for bothfighters and HBs and in the fact that I always seemed to be at max range for my bomber targets. Not that I have a problem with the rules, in fact I enjoyed playing with them, but they just seem to work more against Japan's efforts than anyone else.
As for SGT Rice's comments on AA I agree that raising starting values by 1 (but not the WS) would be a good idea. Tech'ing them up sure helped against TBs and HBs under 6 LA, but once the Wallies hit 6 LA they weren't very effective at all. Even with 3 AA units in E.France at 9 air attack SGT Rice was getting many hits and rarely with any bombers damaged. Maybe it's possible to increase the autohit possibility of only AA fire (from AA units and ships) from 5% to 10%? I mean now its almost a no-risk endeavor to send out bombing runs.
Being a new scenario, I tried a rather different approach than my usual. I figured I'd use the new WR rules to keep the U.S. out as long as possible...but I think I procrastinated too long and ended up giving them too much buildup time both to counter-attack and defend India. I have never seen anyone tech up their CAGs to 4/7/7 before so I was taken by surprise when he attacked me and I couldn't counterstrike. Japan is pretty well defenseless without a good force of CVs and CAGs to keep the U.S. at bay.
With Germany though, my little venture into africa turned out to be a waste of time and supplies. I was a bit surprised that my opponent didn't contest control of the C.Med after I withdrew the afrika corp. I guess he was content to conserve his forces until strong enough to confront me elsewhere. Barbarossa went well, although I must admit his complete withdrawal to the ural/caucasus mountains was frustrating [:@] Russia's strategy was a mixed blessing as allowed me to reach the 77VP watermark as well as keep his armies pinned down, but on the other hand he had a huge force bearing down on me at the end.
Not sure on the victory results, I did hit second watermark but maybe the UV scenario has a different victory time scale...one less than Axis marginal would put the game as a draw. I could live with that [8D]
RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
ORIGINAL: Sandeman
Not sure on the victory results, I did hit second watermark but maybe the UV scenario has a different victory time scale...one less than Axis marginal would put the game as a draw. I could live with that [8D]
Mmmm ... actually I thought the level was off one in the other direction[:(] From section 14.3 of the game manual: Decisive Allied Victory - Axis surrender by the end of the Summer 1945 turn. This would then be shifted one level in favor of the Axis (Substantive Allied Victory) due to their hitting the second watermark. I seem to recall seeing this kind of one level shift in a v1.011 game with Marshall Art as well; perhaps the Victory Conditions have been changed at some point but the change wasn't documented in the Read Me file?
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
One last note; the game reported a result of Axis Marginal Victory. My reading of the game manual indicates this is off one level. Is this a bug or did something change?
That does not sound right.
I believe victory(for scoreing purposes) is actually checked on the start of the German Turn but I am not sure on that.
That would make it Fall45 + Axis second high water mark which acording to this:
For All Campaigns and Scenarios I, II and II:
Decisive Allied Victory – Axis surrender by the end of the Summer 1945 turn.
Substantive Allied Victory - Axis surrender by the end of the Fall 1945 turn.
Marginal Allied Victory – Axis surrender by the end of the Winter 1946 turn.
Would be a Marginal Allied Victory not Axis.
Did you mean Allied?
Could you post a screenshot of the victory screen?
Scores:
Allied Marginal Victory
Sandeman +5
SGT Rice +25
Sandeman
21 turns with in 24hrs for 10.5pts
22 turns with Screen Shots for 11pts
SGT Rice
25 turns with in 24hrs for 12.5pts
25 turns with Screen Shots for 12.5pts
Totals
Sandeman----26.5
SGT Rice-----50
RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
My mistake. You're correct; I meant to say that the game reported an Allied Marginal Victory, but I believe it should have reported Allied Substantive.
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RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Thanks for the fast response and like I posted I think the victory check is made at the start of a round which means the next season.
I have seen this a few times and that is the conclusion I come to.
I have seen this a few times and that is the conclusion I come to.
RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
SGT Rice could you load that victiory file again and then take a look at the map and see what season it is showing.
I have a feeling it might say fall45.
I have a feeling it might say fall45.
RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Indeed it does say Fall 1945. This makes sense; I ended my Summer 1945 turn before sending it to my opponent. I'm not concerned about the tourney points; I'll be on the other side of the equation when I play the Axis[X(]. Its simply a mismatch between the game manual and the way the game actually functions[>:]. That's why I moved my comments over to the patch thread. Thanks.
GG A World Divided Playtester
RE: Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice
Now going back to the following post by WH: He says that a bug was introduced in 1.02 that causes Victory Level to be determined one season late
quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrQuiet
I just figured the person who wrote the manual was not the person who coded the game and they somehow got comunications crossed on when victory level is decided.
No, this is definitely not the case. Having looked at the code, I can say that I unintentionally changed it when I fixed the "continue game" option. My oopsie. First time, I think, that I've had the displeasure of identifying a bug I myself put in a released version.
If that is the only problem then that should be easy enough to fix it back. It would still progress to the next season, but I can subtract 1 season in computing the victory level.
The Scores have been changed so that Allies Receive SVI am going to adjust victory scoreing accordingly for all games using 1.02 in this tournament and the others.
So far it only effects this game and Sandeman vs Sgt Rice, but it will no doubt effect the 2 vs 2 games that have started in 1.02