DIFFICULTY LEVELS

[MemoryLeak]

I have been playing this series since it was released. I was a beta tester for Morning Sun.

It seems to me that the difficulty levels are out of whack. I don't know why you even include levels 4 and 5
since level 3 is just about impossible without cheating. I know some of you will say it is very easy but I bet
the majority of the players think otherwise.

I am doing the Marines DLC and the New Georgia (Scn #3) on difficulty level 3. After three restarts I have to use the cheat code
to add 500 points and 40 land cp's. Otherwise I don't start with enough troops to defeat a pack of Boy Scouts.

And then on turn three it says I should intercept a Japanese landing force. USING WHAT? Give me some naval CP's and nine more air CP's
or three dive-bombers and I might be able to do it. Otherwise why even include it in the scenario?

If you make difficulty level three practically impossible then level 5 is only for a few people.
You do this with all of your games.

I know I will get some push back, but honestly, even things out a little so that there is more reason to replay the game and get more out of it.
Right now there is no reason to even try to replay the DLC at a higher level of difficulty because a person doesn't
stand a chance to succeed.

It is suppose to be entertainment.

[MemoryLeak]

I went on to the next scenario. Mono island. Imfuckingpossible. On difficulty level three I have tried it
five frustrating times and my measly 2o land CP are completely overwhelmed on every front. I will try it
one more time and give myself an additional 75 land CP and 12 air CP and maybe it will be enough. The jap
troops are super human in this scenario.

I tried to use the editor to reduce the number of japs to under a million but the editor is impossible to figure out.

Just once in my life I would like to buy a game that was good.

[Rosseau]

It's bizarre, but I had a great multiplayer game when it was first released. But single player just went down from there. And the Winter War has got to be the biggest snore yet. They will just follow in Panzer Corps' footsteps through the whole Eastern Front, blah blah blah.

Maybe MP is the way to go, but I don't have time for it. Really can't figure out how my excitement level for this game dropped so dramatically.

The editor is not self-explanatory but is the only reason the game's still on my hard drive. The official scenarios are like you said, more or less.

[Yogi the Great]

Also seems "reality" isn't part of this game (I do like the game). Frustrating how many units even tanks come at you at some places that just don't seem to be in line with any historical accounts of what was available.

Also frustrating at times is how the AI becomes experts at finding ability to make multiple moves cutting supply lines.

Victory against the AI often does seem to be the human having to try a few times in order to figure out the exact placements and steps needed to meet the victory conditions. You find yourself having badly beaten the enemy but losing because you didn't quite meet one of the not always logical actual required victory rule.

And kill X number of unit ones are great, will try again some day put so far with three or four tries I can't even find the number of Greek units needing to be killed. Victory conditions also often seem to be intentionally made that make it almost required to not be able to get there until the last turn or two no matter what you try.

[jakemon]

I'm a newcomer to this series and played US Pacific, US Marines, and Morning Sun on the default level 2. I just replayed US Marines on level 3 to see what the levels changed. In all campaigns, I haven't had to do restarts or cheat codes yet. In general, conservative and economical play seem to carry the day.

The US Marines scenario 3 Munda Point nicely illustrates the problem with getting and staying ashore. My notes say level 3 started me with 32/0/13 land/sea/air CPs. I stuck with fast infantry (heavy inf always lags behind an advance), but the 32-mod-3 lets you sub in one armor. I usually stick with ground attack aircraft and hold 3 or 6 air points in reserve to see if I need fighters. The 13-mod-3 lets you buy an air recon. There are no naval points, but on map are one CA and 2 DDs, and 4 supply ships.

I send the CA and 2 inf to the northeast deployment, and start working south- clearing all the way to the eastern flank. There's more deep water in the north, but I usually get a bloody nose when I try to use the CA to challenge the Jap landing force. That diversion seems to take its time coming from the northwest to the north central port.

Everybody else lands on the southwestern beach. The first few turns are always nail biters as the enemy swarms. Stand shoulder to shoulder, try to advance a hex row to create a buffer zone to retreat / rest/ replace broken units, and defend. Use the air and DDs to weaken exposed attackers, and counterattack only when you can get some kills as you work towards the river.

You've established a beachhead when you take the city, and High Command rewards you with more command points. I reinforce the northern effort with 1 or 2 inf, keep a couple more at sea in the south for a possible flank end run, and reinforce the main effort with the rest. I stick with inf and maybe armor when the CP remainder works out right.

Note you can use air (no airfield or carrier) and the map edge exit points for repair / refuel. Units exit back into your force pool, and can be rapidly shifted to distant deployment hexes. You can also change the mix between fighters and ground attack.

The eastward ground advance is a steady slogfest- tactical goals are rack up kills, keep your flank clean, and have the seaborne units keep pace. When the battle for the southern airfield is in hand, I split off a couple of columns to start marching north along the inland roads. These are timed to meet the northern group, who has cautiously advanced to keep from getting swarmed.

The final battle for the north central port is joined with the superior forces of the 2 inland columns and the northeast column. A western column advancing along the coast road gets there in the final turns. Last time, I got pissed at the enemy activity in the northwest corner and sallied with my seaborne forces. I took the air base, but the casualties and RPs were probably not worth the campaign bonus.

The next scenario Op Bliss/Goodtime is my favorite. In a nutshell: the raiders operate independently and will never join the battle for Mono in time. Stay off Mono until you've cleared the smaller Sterling Island- then pivot everybody north. Same problem getting and staying ashore, and more CPs are given when you take the victory city. I use those new resources to land on north Mono, while flankers are walking up the east & west coast roads.

BTW, there is more activity for this series on the Slitherine forum.

[bru888]

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

I have been playing this series since it was released. I was a beta tester for Morning Sun.

It seems to me that the difficulty levels are out of whack. I don't know why you even include levels 4 and 5
since level 3 is just about impossible without cheating. I know some of you will say it is very easy but I bet
the majority of the players think otherwise.

I am doing the Marines DLC and the New Georgia (Scn #3) on difficulty level 3. After three restarts I have to use the cheat code
to add 500 points and 40 land cp's. Otherwise I don't start with enough troops to defeat a pack of Boy Scouts.

I used to think this way, but it's interesting that you used an example which I would use as a counterpoint but with a slight twist: I was remembering the New Georgia scenario in the U.S. Pacific Campaign.

I thought that one was a beast when I tried to play it on difficulty 3. I, too, had to cheat.

But then I played Morning Sun and Rising Sun and . . . learned how to play better. Such as paying attention to supply lines and proper selection of unit type for the task at hand.

So, when I played U.S. Pacific again, I knew that one does not use heavy infantry and tanks to slog through jungles like New Georgia. Instead, I went with Marines and I won without cheating on difficulty 3.

I also beat the New Georgia ("Munda Point") scenario in U.S. Marines. I remember that it was hard, but I did beat it on level 3 without cheating.

Would I want to play those scenarios on level 4 or 5? Hell, no! But I have heard of guys boasting how they make in through campaigns on level 5 and my hat is off to them.

As you say, "It is suppose to be entertainment." [:)]

[Hailstone]

When I first started playing OOB I found it very challenging myself at level 3 which I thought was the normal setting. The difficult scenarios almost got me to quit the game but I hate to give up. Yet, I was able to complete the Marines DLC without cheating only because I didn't know cheats were out there. But I have to admit it took many, many scenario restarts before I was able to figure out the winning strategy and that can be a problem. It does get old having to try and try again but then I discovered the cheats and I got stupid adding all kinds of stuff to my forces only to find it's no longer the same game and victory seemed hollow. Now, I use cheats very conservatively like when I want a unit to have a transport upgrade I will add 1 land cp to get that truck. The little things go a long way and I feel better about using cheats and feel I truly won the game. OOB is very difficult or should I say challenging and the temptation to use cheats is very strong but if you really want to enjoy the game I suggest go easy on the cheats. [8D]

[Rosseau]

It's best in multiplayer, but don't have time for that. I must say, though, that the Blitzkrieg scenarios so far have been creatively designed and are more enjoyable. Just me, but I got bored with the Pacific, Winter War was pretty shallow, and didn't buy Marines - yet.

[bru888]

ORIGINAL: rosseau

It's best in multiplayer, but don't have time for that. I must say, though, that the Blitzkrieg scenarios so far have been creatively designed and are more enjoyable. Just me, but I got bored with the Pacific, Winter War was pretty shallow, and didn't buy Marines - yet.

I think you will like Marines.

I came back to add one more thing that playing experience taught me, after which the game did not seem quite so difficult in some scenarios: Efficiency. This is key. Resting, rotating, refraining from attacking with units at low efficiency. Big, big difference once you know this.