Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778



I've beaten vanilla PzC a couple of times on Colonel. I thought the original game was too short. My complaint is with DLC Grand Campaign after '42.

Obviously, the Grand Campaign follows history pretty well- the Germans lost the war. But I don't want to be thrown into situations that are frustrating or hopeless- what's the fun in that? If there's a legitimate way to win, I would like to pursue it.

It's just that it's eluding me so far, and I can't believe it's possible to win on higher levels; that's the jist of this thread. I'll have to check out the AARs to see how it's done.

Otherwise I may have to play on a lower difficulty, which feels like cheating.

I know the first time I did the East Front DLC's I had a rude awakening in late 42-early 43. I didn't have nearly enough experienced infantry and lost a lot of units in the Stalingrad fighting. They do play different.

In the base game there are some unit types I generally ignore, AT and AA mostly. In the DLC's the mobile AA came in real handy because of what you pointed out, the large number of enemy planes that made it harder to own the air. I even found use for AT units which I almost never purchased in the base game. The good thing is you generally can have a larger core in the DLC's so it was more a matter of integrating the units I didn't use much into my force and figuring out how to best use them rather than totally re-thinking things.

If you haven't already checked out the Slitherine forums you should, there are plenty of people who can give you more specific hints and there are a lot of good AAR. They helped me a lot when I first got the game and I still pick up new things there.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778
It's just that it's eluding me so far, and I can't believe it's possible to win on higher levels; that's the jist of this thread. I'll have to check out the AARs to see how it's done.

Otherwise I may have to play on a lower difficulty, which feels like cheating.

There is nothing wrong with playing the game on the default level, that is the one that you should play on. If a game is not challenging on the recommended level then I think it's poorly designed.

[joe6778]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: joe6778



I've beaten vanilla PzC a couple of times on Colonel. I thought the original game was too short. My complaint is with DLC Grand Campaign after '42.

Obviously, the Grand Campaign follows history pretty well- the Germans lost the war. But I don't want to be thrown into situations that are frustrating or hopeless- what's the fun in that? If there's a legitimate way to win, I would like to pursue it.

It's just that it's eluding me so far, and I can't believe it's possible to win on higher levels; that's the jist of this thread. I'll have to check out the AARs to see how it's done.

Otherwise I may have to play on a lower difficulty, which feels like cheating.

I know the first time I did the East Front DLC's I had a rude awakening in late 42-early 43. I didn't have nearly enough experienced infantry and lost a lot of units in the Stalingrad fighting. They do play different.

In the base game there are some unit types I generally ignore, AT and AA mostly. In the DLC's the mobile AA came in real handy because of what you pointed out, the large number of enemy planes that made it harder to own the air. I even found use for AT units which I almost never purchased in the base game. The good thing is you generally can have a larger core in the DLC's so it was more a matter of integrating the units I didn't use much into my force and figuring out how to best use them rather than totally re-thinking things.

If you haven't already checked out the Slitherine forums you should, there are plenty of people who can give you more specific hints and there are a lot of good AAR. They helped me a lot when I first got the game and I still pick up new things there.

In the Kursk Grand Campaign scenario, you get around four auxiliary mobile AA units. They were still not enough to slow the Russian air onslaught.

What I like about the game is choosing what units to buy with your prestige. When I play on lower difficulties, when I reach the '42 and '43 campaigns, I'm able to purchase a bunch of Panthers and Tigers and I had enough success to be able to advance to East '44.

Playing Colonel limits my prestige so I'm still using some PzIIIMs/PzIIINs and PzIVHs against the onslaught of Russian tanks.

The larger core is still no match for all the enemy units you're up against from '42 onwards.

[joe6778]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: joe6778
It's just that it's eluding me so far, and I can't believe it's possible to win on higher levels; that's the jist of this thread. I'll have to check out the AARs to see how it's done.

Otherwise I may have to play on a lower difficulty, which feels like cheating.

There is nothing wrong with playing the game on the default level, that is the one that you should play on. If a game is not challenging on the recommended level then I think it's poorly designed.

Default is Colonel. I'm getting my clock cleaned in '42/'43 West on Lieutenant and '43 East on Colonel.

[joe6778]

I restarted East '43 at Lieutenant difficulty resulting in a loss.
I found two of the three units I needed to escort to the southern area and I was adjacent to two objective cities at the end. I would have never been able to capture the Kharkov hexes.
The Russians had 60 units on the map at the end compared to my 30, and that was after I had destroyed their air units and a bunch of ground units.
Like I said, it would be suicide to launch an attack at under 3:1 or 2:1 odds; this scenario was more like 1:4 odds for the Germans.[:@]

[rodney727]

Joe tell me your core force I want to know every unit you have.

[joe6778]

At the start of Grand Campaign East '43 this is my core before upgrades:
12306 prestige

3 Ju88
1 Bf110F
2 Ju87D
3 FW190A
3 Me109G
1 SU122
1 Nblwf 42
4 21 cm Mrs 18
2 STuG 111F/8
1 Sd Kfz 222
1 SE Pz IIIL
2 M4A2
2 T34/41
3 Pz IVG
2 Pz IIIN
2 Pz IIIL
1 SE Gebirgjager
1 Bruckenpioneer
1 SE Grenadier
3 Pioneers
1 Gebirgjager
1 Fallschirmjager
1 Grenadier

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

At the start of Grand Campaign East '43 this is my core before upgrades:
12306 prestige

3 Ju88
1 Bf110F
2 Ju87D
3 FW190A
3 Me109G
1 SU122
1 Nblwf 42
4 21 cm Mrs 18
2 STuG 111F/8
1 Sd Kfz 222
1 SE Pz IIIL
2 M4A2
2 T34/41
3 Pz IVG
2 Pz IIIN
2 Pz IIIL
1 SE Gebirgjager
1 Bruckenpioneer
1 SE Grenadier
3 Pioneers
1 Gebirgjager
1 Fallschirmjager
1 Grenadier

That looks pretty balanced, maybe a little light on infantry but after Stalingrad you don't need a ton. You have 30 ground units so maybe another Gren and another tank would be all I'd add. If you want to enlarge your core then I'd go for a few more fighters or even 88's.

If you can get the PZ III's upgraded to Panthers (or Tigers if you like them) you should be in good shape until the KT becomes available. PZ IV's can last into 44.

You may want to upgrade your Strats to something better for taking the shots from the stronger tanks.

I also don't think you will have a lot of use for the Recon and the Bridge Eng after Kursk so you may want to eventually swap them out for something more useful in the late war.

[joe6778]

I actually had 2 Ju88s, not 3.

I tried Kharkov 43 again on Lieutenant difficulty and lost again. I bought a couple of Tigers, another FW190, and upgraded my PzIIILs to PzIIIMs, my STuGs to STuG IIIGs, Ju87s to Ju87Rs, my INF to INF 43 units, and my ME110F to ME110G. I still couldn't capture enough objectives for a MV.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

I actually had 2 Ju88s, not 3.

I tried Kharkov 43 again on Lieutenant difficulty and lost again. I bought a couple of Tigers, another FW190, and upgraded my PzIIILs to PzIIIMs, my STuGs to STuG IIIGs, Ju87s to Ju87Rs, my INF to INF 43 units, and my ME110F to ME110G. I still couldn't capture enough objectives for a MV.

Dang. I will try to fire the 43 DLC up again and get to Kharkov as I don't recall it exactly. I'm pretty sure my force wasn't a whole lot different than yours but I could be mistaken.

[James Ward]

Here is what I start with in 43:
1 INF
4 GREN, 2 are SE
4 ENG
1 PARA
7 IVG, 3 are SE
3 IIIM
3 KV1
2 SHERMAN
2 STUG IIIF/8
4 21cm ART
1 STURM
1 WULFRAM
1 STU 42
1 SU 122
2 88s
5 FW 190A
2 87D
2 110G
2 DO177A

Units are mostly 3-4 stars. All are overstrength except the captured units, the 88s and the STUGs, as I don't intend to use them this scenario. Only the GREN are 43 INF.

I am staring with only ~1300 Prestige so I may disband some units as I have 48 but can only deploy 38.

You need 7 objectives for an MV and start with 2. I intend to just go straight North with my main thrust and try to get the 5 additional objectives quick then decide if a DV is worth it Prestige wise. I'll let you know how it works out.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: joe6778

I actually had 2 Ju88s, not 3.

I tried Kharkov 43 again on Lieutenant difficulty and lost again. I bought a couple of Tigers, another FW190, and upgraded my PzIIILs to PzIIIMs, my STuGs to STuG IIIGs, Ju87s to Ju87Rs, my INF to INF 43 units, and my ME110F to ME110G. I still couldn't capture enough objectives for a MV.

Dang. I will try to fire the 43 DLC up again and get to Kharkov as I don't recall it exactly. I'm pretty sure my force wasn't a whole lot different than yours but I could be mistaken.

I ended up with a DV. Here is how I approached it.

I never crossed the river to the east. I just set up a defensive line behnd the river with my KV's and Stug's so that every river hex was next to one of my units except the southern ones near the woods. I deployed 2 towed guns and 2 infantry units with the force and got them into woods.

My main attack was straight north. I used my Stukas and 110's to weaken the russian tanks then destroyed them piecemeal. As I advanced north I peeled off units to guard the river. I captured the last objective on turn 19.

I took losses but did not lose any units. The Russia air isn't much in this scenario so I kiiled it as it came on and had a free run with my TAC and Strat. Be aware there is a LOT of AA for the Russians, especially east of the river so don't fly there if you don't have to. .

Don't go over the river, there is no need to. Kill the bridge engineers and then wait until the Russian gets on the river hexes to counter attack them. They will not last long.

There will also be a minor counter attack from the west but you can handle that with an infantry and artillery unit and air or send a tank back to help clean up.

Take your time, you have 20 turns, and just work your way north.

[joe6778]

Thanks for helping me with this scenario. I have never gotten a DV, but in the past I was at least able to get a MV in order to advance in the campaign, but the last three tries I haven't been able to even get a MV.

I do pretty much what you did, except that after I take the airfield and city in the center of the map, I'm stopped at the northern city when time runs out. And I have never been able to capture the big city objectives or the city way to the northeast.

I restarted with my core, 12000 prestige, and Lieutenant difficulty.

[rodney727]

Looking at your core no wonder why you struggle now.
By 1943 you should have no infantry unless you have three hero units of attack +3 each. You have three Eng to many. Sherman's are no match for soviet tanks.. Strum and wulf, there are better options. I never use any TB, always use FB as they are duel purpose. Also you need only one heavy bomber. also I tend to stay away from the Pnz Ivs seems you have too many. A 1943 grenadier with four stars with an attack and movement hero can be more effective than any Pnz IV tank. I never employ stugs unless they have a range hero.

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Here is what I start with in 43:
1 INF
4 GREN, 2 are SE
4 ENG
1 PARA
7 IVG, 3 are SE
3 IIIM
3 KV1
2 SHERMAN
2 STUG IIIF/8
4 21cm ART
1 STURM
1 WULFRAM
1 STU 42
1 SU 122
2 88s
5 FW 190A
2 87D
2 110G
2 DO177A

Units are mostly 3-4 stars. All are overstrength except the captured units, the 88s and the STUGs, as I don't intend to use them this scenario. Only the GREN are 43 INF.

I am staring with only ~1300 Prestige so I may disband some units as I have 48 but can only deploy 38.

You need 7 objectives for an MV and start with 2. I intend to just go straight North with my main thrust and try to get the 5 additional objectives quick then decide if a DV is worth it Prestige wise. I'll let you know how it works out.

[joe6778]

Thanks for the advice. A few comments:

How do you capture entrenched INF in cities if you don't use ENG?
I see you have Shermans as well. I find that they're compatible with higher level German tanks except Tigers and Panthers.
I see you also have a couple of Stukas and 2 heavy bombers like I do.
PzIVGs are the best all around German tank at this point IMO, except for the Tigers and Panthers which are very expensive.
What are Sturm and Wulf?

BTW- I was able to get a DV at Kursk attacking from the north.

[rodney727]

The key word is supress wit artillery. Grenadiers are just as effective. There was a reason each infantry and panzer division had one regiment of artillery to supress before attacking. This is how I save prestige because in 1944 this game gets extremely hard.

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Thanks for the advice. A few comments:

How do you capture entrenched INF in cities if you don't use ENG?
I see you have Shermans as well. I find that they're compatible with higher level German tanks except Tigers and Panthers.
I see you also have a couple of Stukas and 2 heavy bombers like I do.
PzIVGs are the best all around German tank at this point IMO, except for the Tigers and Panthers which are very expensive.
What are Sturm and Wulf?

BTW- I was able to get a DV at Kursk attacking from the north.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Thanks for the advice. A few comments:

How do you capture entrenched INF in cities if you don't use ENG?
I see you have Shermans as well. I find that they're compatible with higher level German tanks except Tigers and Panthers.
I see you also have a couple of Stukas and 2 heavy bombers like I do.
PzIVGs are the best all around German tank at this point IMO, except for the Tigers and Panthers which are very expensive.
What are Sturm and Wulf?

BTW- I was able to get a DV at Kursk attacking from the north.

Good on the DV.

If you bombard the unit first with a strong enough artillery you can usually get good damage on it with any unit, even armor. I use my Eng for defense, attacking in rough terrain and finishing off damaged units in cities without using Artillery.

I don't use my Shermans, they are there for emergency Prestige. You get about 400 for each. Since you can't upgrade them to a better Sherman their useful life is limited, eventually you will need to make them a German tank so I usually don't use them.

I will eventually change the Stukas to FB but in 43 they still have good targets so I'll keep them around, I am usually low on prestige so they are not high on the upgrade list when then new units come out. It costs a lot to switch them to a FB.

I like the IVG and IVH through 43. The PZ III start to become a little vulnerable though they are generally the first one I upgrade to. I like to be able to wait until the Panther becomes available then upgrade the III's to them and make KT's out of my IV's.

I have 2 AT units that I bought because I needed some extra armor and they are cheap. They may not survive into 44, I may just disband them if I need prestige. The Jadgpanther isn't bad though so I may keep them around if I don't end up with a lot of Panthers as they move fast.

The Sturmpanzer and Wolfram are SP artillery. They have less shots than the towed guns and the Wolfram has a shorter range but they have their uses. Some people like to have all SP guns but in the later war you are on defense and I like the extra shots that the towed guns give you.

[fuelli]

I think with wulfram you are referring to the Wurfrahmen?
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wurfrahmen_40

[joe6778]

I'm done with this POS "game". I'm going back to boardwargames. The Grand Campaign is no fun at all. Complete BS.

I played at Colonel difficulty and started the '43 East Grand Campaign with over 43,000(!) prestige points and by Kiev 43 I was down to 3,000.

I surrendered and saw that the Russians had almost 98 units! My Tigers and Panthers were doing 2 damage to paratroopers in open ground. My FW190s were barely making a dent in the enemy planes unless I ganged up on them with 5 or 6 attacks. The Russian tanks were immune to my tanks and anti-tank guns. I even had a couple of DVs up to this point, but I don't want to continue. Complete and total futility.

What a piece of garbage. [:@]

[LouieDee]

see my post from a year or two ago below. I beat the game on FM, then got three more harder FM, well it took over a year and I can beat the two easier FMs, the last on Manstein (sp) starts with all units at 15 strength. I though Poland was impossible on this level, then Norway, then all of France. Finally I can make it to SeaLion in good order and have even manage to capture all objectives but one! I highly doubt if many or maybe anyone has got to this. My conclusion is it is impossible to win. I see that version 1.23 of the Ipad "fixes" the difficulty on the three bonus level FMs. I don't need all three fixed I just need the last one kicked down to say 13, and just maybe I can do it.

To Matrix games, please fix the last bonus FM, normal humans with years of game play should with a lot of luck and saving, be able to beat it.