Enjoying Shadow Empire While Totally Blind

[BlindGuyNW]

Hmmm.

Interesting, so something else must be going on with my screen reader. I'll have a look around again. I was having no luck with any of the shortcut keys, either.

[Jdane]

Indeed.

Unfortunately, deactivating Advice in the Preferences doesn't seem to have an effect before the turn is done.

If that's tripping you up, there's a button to minimize Advice that you could have somebody bookmark for you.
I don't know your screen resolution and am not sure how the user interface scales up, so I'm hesitant to provide directions for you without knowing if what works for me could work for you.

Although the shortcuts are working fine even with the Advice pop up on screen.

[BlindGuyNW]

Edit: My screen resolution is 1920x1080.

Okay, I finally got something new.

It seems it was part of the decisions screen I was seeing, not the advice after all. I was inadvertently making a decision, or a couple, and unsure how to dismiss the "confirmation," screen which came up saying that my orders were being carried out. Escape and such didn't seem to do it. But I hit escape before making my first decision and behold, a map.

I was able to pick up what seemed to be hex coordinates at some place on screen but it was a little difficult to tell where. OCR does wonderfully horrible things to tables, and other data presented in columns, which is one wreason i hope eventually to be able to break my dependence on it with some help.

I was able to click seemingly at random in inspect mode,"and get repeatedly told that I was looking at unknown landscape, and no units were selected. The hex coordinates changed, however, which indicates that I was able to succesfully move my cursor around, though I had trouble finding out much for obvious reasons.

I was recently reminded of this add-on for my screen reader. I wonder if it might be able to help me with the map while I hope for some sort of alternative representation? I've discovered from playing with previous strategy games that a lot of things are represented by specific colors, and that those colors seem to remain fairly constant.

Just a few thoughts, as always. I hope to be able ot make more substantial progress soon.

[Jdane]

One issue you will face is that information is sometimes conveyed by tool tips which appear when you mouse over some part of the screen.

Such as the cost of movement for the different types of units (e.g. foot soldiers, wheeled vehicles, tracked vehicles) through this type of terrain.
You can only read it if you mouse over an image of the terrain type of the hex which is on the very right side, just above the bottom tabs display area. There's some text just left of the image that states the terrain type and the hex coordinate.
The thing is, a tool tip in this game does not appear very quickly, the mouse cursor has to stay put about half a second for it to pop up, so that if you move around too quickly you might miss it entirely.

(And another issue is that terrain data is conveyed as a table.)

I'm not sure I understood how the add-on you linked about is operating, but it might help you get a feel to where stuff is on the screen since it seems to help you figuring boundaries, and there's a lot of data in boxes - such as the terrain picture box and the terrain type and hex coordinates box.
However terrain color varies with the planet type. On a Siwa class, plains and forest are in green hues, but on a Medusa in blue hues. On other planets it would be yellow, or tan. It might be more useful for you if it could give you a way to hear what the texture is in a hex - e.g. a plain is mostly flat and featureless, forest are a bunch of dots more or less sparse, dunes are ripples, mountains a bunch of ^s.
But the color of the user interface is always the same, so at least you'd be able to tell if a report is obstructing the map.

[Soar_Slitherine]

That add-on seems like it might be worth trying. On the main map, there's clear color differences between at least areas beyond the top or bottom edges of the map (grey), unexplored hexes (black), explored hexes in the fog of war (like the normal terrain but with lower brightness), different climate zones (lush green, arid tan, snow white, et cetera, more exotic ones for different planet types), to some extent different terrain types within a climate zone, and unit counters and cities controlled by different regimes (militia and regulars also seem to use slightly different shades of their regime's color). Following roads might be possible at least depending on terrain, dirt roads have a high contrast against, for example, lush green terrain, though low contrast against arid.

[Soar_Slitherine]

ORIGINAL: BlindGuyNW

It seems it was part of the decisions screen I was seeing, not the advice after all. I was inadvertently making a decision, or a couple, and unsure how to dismiss the "confirmation," screen which came up saying that my orders were being carried out. Escape and such didn't seem to do it.

This one does not seem to be dismissable with a key. It's a large pop-up box that you have to dismiss by pressing a very wide "OK" button at the bottom of the popup, slightly above were you switch between tabs for the bottom panel.

[BlindGuyNW]

Tgat explains a lot.

I'll have to continue to explore. As always with a lot of these games I wish I had a way to play without either using OCR or depending on someone else to read the game screen for me. I suspect that weirdness related to the way the screen reader scans/mangles things is going to be about 90% of my problems in itself.

Is there any more official way to get in touch with the developers, or is the forum pretty much it? I'd love to talk shop a bit at least about maybe adding a few more keyboard commands, but I realize this is still early days.

[Dehimos]

As far as I know, there is only one developer, "Vic". I can not post links, but on the website, "VR Designs", in the "About Us" section you have an email. You can also send him a private message through this forum, he is a moderator with the same name "Vic".

I guess he has a lot of work, but I've always seen him answer all messages. Maybe you could email him or put a message in the "Suggestions and Feedback" sub-forum.

Sorry I can't help you anymore, it's very interesting to know how you can play with accessibility tools.

[Jdane]

In case you hadn't found the address or sent a private message to Vic, it is vic@vrdesigns.net

[BlindGuyNW]

Hi All,

Long time no see. I was reminded of this game again and decided to give it another try, I had previously become slightly frustrated but also distracted by other games.

I'm trying to take things one at a time. I've just emailed Vic last night, and asked for any advice he might have to offer, and have begun trying to figure out how the UI operates.

I've noticed an entry near the bottom of the game screen which often says something like "Name of my Regime, (8, 20). I presume this is a hex coordinate but am having trouble getting it to change as I move the mouse around, is it possible it only does so on click or otherwise? I did notice an "Auto mouseover," preference, but wasn't sure of its default setting.

I briefly got access to what seemed to be more detailed info about a hex, including data about roads and such, but was unsure how. The UI still seems rather opaque, but I'd appreciate any insight. I presume I'll want to explore most of the game in inspect mode, while I get familiar.

I've also noticed strange groupings of numbers and letters such as "A 99," repeated several times. I presume these are unit designations of some sort, but it's a little hard to understand what's being conveyed.

I feel like I can access all the information I'll need, I just need to get used to how it's conveyed and be rather systematic about the UI exploration.

I'd appreciate any advice

[Thomas8]

'Auto mouseover' option is enabled by default (OK sign (Check mark) rather than X sign) but its about extra info on assets and units that normally show on mouse hover ('name of industry',"public/private asset" and). When this is not selected you need to click RIGHT mouse button for this info to show up.

(8,20) is hex position - it doesnt show up on hover - you need to click on hex to check it - it shows on right side of the window. Syntax is - name of your mouse mode (Inspection mode, Move mode etc - to be changed by right clicking on hex), then there is hex terran type in next line (Plains, Hills, Mountain etc), then in next line there is either hex position (8,30) or name of map region that hex is in AND hex position (in example: Bear Grove (122,57) for my forest). Several hexes on map are grouped in geographic regions - but its created random during map creation (desert names, mountain ranges, forests, jungle names etc.) Then on the right from it there is image with visualisation of this hex terrain and when you hover over it it will show up information about ATTACK, DEFENSE and MOVE modifiers for different troop types (I dont recognize A 99 , but maybe its about this ? There are ATT-MOD - attack modifiers and DEF-MOD modifiers and numbers below there - but usually 25, 37 , 50 ,100). This info window is shown up automatically when 'Auto-mouseover' is enabled. Then on the right of it there is flag of current owner of the hex with text when you hover over it (Hex is controled by 'name of Regime').

PS: Extra information - in this hover pop-up window there is information what kind of industry is present on the hex (road, single built asset, or entire city). But no info about units.

[BlindGuyNW]

Thank you, this is very helpful.

I'm slowly bookmarking various tabs and trying to get familiar with the layout. A lot of things can be accessed from the keyboard but there's also a bunch which can't

It looks like the OCR was misunderstanding numbers on the left bar, (the SHQ inventory bar). The "A," was actually a digit, which I confirmed by mousing over and reading the detailed tooltip. Fortunately, it looks like the tooltips are more informative anyway.

I think a lot of the issue I'll have is probably understanding what happens on the map, and making sure I've selected what I think I have. I hope to hear back from Vic soon, if he's able to provide any insight.

[BlindGuyNW]

So some further experimentation has been fruitful. I think I'm starting to understand how the hex map works, if not the best way for me to personally interact with it. The strategic map is quite useful, if only in terms of letting me rapidly reposition the map selection to focus on something specific.

One thing which would help me a great deal would be a way to change the selected hex without having to mouse over the map to do so. That way, I could select a unit and move from hex to hex without having to worry about issues like how far out the map is zoomed, or where, precisely, the border between hexes is. A few keyboard keys devoted to this would be very much appreciated.

A lot of the info is more or less understandable, I just need to figure out a way to locate hex contents in a more parseable fashion. The fog of war complicates this, as does the current dependence on OCR. If I had a way to reliably tell what was in a given hex, or what my recon points allow me to guess is in a given hex, that would clarify things quite a bit in terms of the planning aspects.

[DTurtle]

ORIGINAL: BlindGuyNW
I've noticed an entry near the bottom of the game screen which often says something like "Name of my Regime, (8, 20). I presume this is a hex coordinate but am having trouble getting it to change as I move the mouse around, is it possible it only does so on click or otherwise? I did notice an "Auto mouseover," preference, but wasn't sure of its default setting.

It is the coordinates of the hex selected. So you have to left click on a hex for it to change.
The "auto mouse over" setting is for automatically showing hover text. If it is off you have to right click on all sorts of icons, etc for it to show that hover text.

I briefly got access to what seemed to be more detailed info about a hex, including data about roads and such, but was unsure how. The UI still seems rather opaque, but I'd appreciate any insight. I presume I'll want to explore most of the game in inspect mode, while I get familiar.

That detailed information shows the offense and defense penalties and the movement costs for a hex. It is shown when you hover over the hex coordinates you noticed before or the graphics to the right of it.

I've also noticed strange groupings of numbers and letters such as "A 99," repeated several times. I presume these are unit designations of some sort, but it's a little hard to understand what's being conveyed.

[/quote]
Unfortunately I can't think of what you could have been looking at with this.

I feel like I can access all the information I'll need, I just need to get used to how it's conveyed and be rather systematic about the UI exploration.

I'd appreciate any advice

Considering how much I missed without being blind, I wish you the best of luck.

[BlindGuyNW]

Hi,

Thanks for all the info and advice

I've been experimenting a bit and have discovered that I can pan the map using arrow keys, which seems to move my view, though not always in a fashion I find easy to understand. It appears to depend on the zoom level I'm at, though it's a little hard to predict where I'm focused at any given time. I can easily select particular hexes but struggle a bit when actually ordering units, because it seems quite possible to select a hex and not be sure where that is on the screen at large, which matters a great deal for my particular situation.

Perhaps the following info on how I interact with game screens will be of use, or at least interest. I have a method to bookmark, certain parts of the screen, at a pixel level, and bring my mouse back to them on demand. That is useful for clicking on tabs and other semi-static game elements. The software I use has a number of limitations, it doesn't understand game context, so bookmarks are made per-application, and they depend on the screen resolution, which is generally annoying because I have to redo them if my screen size changes or I move to a new machine, etc. Note that regular WINdows controls, and apps, which offers bona fide accessibility support, don't have issues like this.

Anyway, I can bookmark parts of the game screen and use OCR to scan it. That generally works well. I also have the ability to "step," across the screen, in the four cardinal directions. I use this to scan for tooltips and icons I might not otherwise find, and, in this case, to try and orient to the hex map. I can adjust the "size," of the pixel step, though by default it's 5 in any direction, which is quite small.

The problem is that sighted users don't think of hexes or maps in terms of pixels at all. To a sighted player, a hex is a hex with whatever is in it, and there's no need to fuss with the extra fumbling that comes with trying to find items on the screen by repeated mouse clicks, because you can just click on whatever hex is of interest and voila. THat's why I'd appreciate a way to move the selected hex without having to use the mouse to do so, because I have no easy points of reference on the map, and thus far figuring out where i am and what's around me has been the most tedious part of the entire exercise. I know the information is available, I'm just not sure how to get it.

If I had a way to find out what hex I was in, what contents are in it, and to interact with those contents from the keyboard or via commands of some sort, that would be ideal. If I could reliably go to specific points without having to click on an arbitrary spot, which will probably change with whatever zoom level I'm looking at, that would be even better. This is where I am at the moment. I know my empire is centered around hex 8,20, but it's difficult interacting with it or its surroundings because of the way the UI currently behaves.

I hope this at least helps explain my current situation. If anyone has any ideas for how to move forward, I'd very much appreciate them. I have contacted Vic by email, and would love to hear back. Thanks for reading, all.

[BlindGuyNW]

Hi ALl,

If it would be of use I'm willing to record a demo of what I'm able to do and where I struggle. This is something I've done for other games, I just hope it leads to some sort of meaningful change in accessibility. I'll look into doing so in the next couple days if I don't hear anything or figure out any of the issues on my own.

I was reading this thread on console commands, and it occurred to me that some of what i want could easily be implemented using a system for those. I just need a way to query info about the game state without having to depend on the mouse or OCR if I can avoid it. The latter is a problem just because sighted players obviously don't have to worry about it mangling things.

Anyway I'll keep poking at this as my mental energy allows.

[DTurtle]

Moving the map with the arrow keys always (at all zoom levels) moves you up, down, left, right exactly one hex.

If you click on the regime name in the top left of the screen, it always centers the view right on your capital city. That should at least give you a defined starting point.

[BlindGuyNW]

HEy,

Thanks for that. The zoom levels seem to cause me a little confusion, if only because I have trouble finding a bookmark for a reliable "current hex," position. I'll have to keep experimenting.

I was able to raise formations and explore other parts of the UI reasonably well, and suspect some of it will just come with practice. I appreciate the manual includes asset stats and other info, which is a little tedious to read with OCR.

[BlindGuyNW]

Hi ALl,

I just wanted to drop a note of thanks for the quality of the Shadow Empire manual. Even if the game itself presents many accessibility challenges for me, the descriptions of the UI are invaluable when it comes to bookmarking the game screen, which is something I normally struggle with quite a bit. The detailed descriptions of tab layouts, information on what is displayed where, etc. is very much appreciated.

I am most definitely excited about this game and its potential. I just wish the map were slightly easier to get info out of, and I haven't really tried messing with the logistics system, which is probably going to be its own variety of difficult, but we will see.

[BlindGuyNW]

I just heard back from VIc. His initial response was negative, I can understand why, given the broad scope of my initial message. Nevertheless, I intend to continue trying to enjoy this game as much as I can. I wrote back asking if he could simply add a way to select hexes from the keyboard.

In all honesty, if I could avoid having to click on the actual map for many things the experience would be 95% smoother. I think that most people do it so often they can't imagine how games could be played any other way, which is understandable. Nevertheless, I will keep going, and hope that such a relatively modest addition could be implemented .