How's this game?

[ShadeAuthority]

People who are on the forum will like the game. If they didn't like it, why would they be here? Matrix are not censoring views; some posts have been highly critical of e.g. logistics, and they weren't censored. Vic even endorsed the constructive feedback.

[Rosseau]

I have been wargaming my whole life, which means I am older. And this game (for me) is harder than my day job. It demands (for me) far too much of a time and brain investment for the "gratification" 30-40 hours later. If you're lucky. [;)]

I will simply wait a few years until there are some mods available to make the game easier to break into.

But that is me, and I'm in the minority. There are some very good comments here. I would respectfully consider giving a bit less credence to those with a low post count who love the game to death.

OTOH, based on the unusually active forum for a new game release, it's obvious the design has brought new people into the fold. My guess is young and highly intelligent people!

[ShadeAuthority]

Soren Johnson said there's no such thing as an easy level that's too easy. One negative of what I'm seeing is people getting crushed on beginner if they start in the wrong area. "Beginner" should be for beginners; not for people that have watched 15 hours of DasTactic videos.

[Smidlee]

All they have to do is to add one or two armies , one or two zones and they should easily handle the minors on beginner.

(By default it's on beginner difficulty so maybe Vic should change the default on two armies and one zone.)

[Jdane]

Or at the very least, perhaps label some game start options as « recommended for beginner ».
But indeed, making it the default on beginner difficulty makes much sense.

I find it somewhat a pity people can be intimidated by the admittedly massive manual, when there's a tutorial in it - the whole chapter 4 « How to play ».
It might be a wise move to split it from the rest as a separate PDF file and call it « Tutorial ». This way people might be more likely to find it.

I've met some methodical people who told me honestly « Oh, thanks for the tip, I've yet to reach chapter 4. » Such a shortcut might come up handy.

[mek42]

I've been playing for less than a week and it is already on the desert island list.

I've done many learn and restart runs. Currently, I've savored the moment where I wanted to go more mechanized, but not enough fuel. I can make fuel from food, but not enough water. I can mine for water, but power consumption is a concern. If I do make more fuel I can use some fuel for power, but I need to research that tech first. I've started to make some fuel though andnam having power issues. If I turn off the lights at the bureaucrat offices, some of the furloughed staff are scientists, which means a delay to power plants. I have two small fights going on and two majors on my opposite border, one of which is blackmailing me. If one (or, Syndic forbid both) attack, I'll be eaten like a fish sandwich.

That was about 10 turns ago. In the end, I closed a metal mine and put my science team on half days. I couldn't slow down my factories; I needed to keep up on troop replacements. Now I've finished one minor war, am slowly wrapping up the other* and the blackmailing major has been eaten by two other majors, now on my border. If either of them attacks right now - fish sandwich. But I'm building factories, developing infrastructure. Maybe in another 10 - 20 turns I could attack a neighbor.

There's been other games, notably Skyrim and Ryzom where I've just sat and enjoyed a scenic view. This is the first time I've caught myself simply basking in the existance of the game.

[JWW]

ORIGINAL: ShadeAuthority

Soren Johnson said there's no such thing as an easy level that's too easy. One negative of what I'm seeing is people getting crushed on beginner if they start in the wrong area. "Beginner" should be for beginners; not for people that have watched 15 hours of DasTactic videos.

I could see something like a tutorial planet option, with a set easy planet with a good beginning setup for new players to get them going. The advice entries could be expanded for that specific planet to give a great deal more advice and serve as something of a tutorial. I'm pretty good with complex games, but I did not feel even a little bit comfortable with this game until I went through most of DasTactic's tips and tricks Youtubes, and I usually don't watch more than 30-60 minutes of Youtubes for a game. I've started 8 or so games now and am finally sell into a game, 100+ turns, and I am still learning something about the game every turn.

Which leads to one piece of advice. I play with the manual open, and between turns I will often refer to it when I'm not looking at something else.

[Rosseau]

Thing is I'm not getting crushed by the enemy. I am struggling (on beginner) just to get enough resources to make the game interesting. I have a metal mine, for example, but still not enough metal to do much. As I said somewhere else, give me a file to modify to get some resources, and I can be on with my virtual life.

And then I read the posts and screen shots on the logistics, with traffic lights to manage, roads snaking everywhere, etc. And I admit, it's simply not gonna be fun.

[diamondspider]

And I admit, it's simply not gonna be fun.

For you. These kind of games are very dependent on taste... most kinds of games are dependent on taste, but these kind of high complexity games much more so. A game like this cannot be scored on a scale that generally applies... at least I think so.

[Fleshbits]

I dunno guys. I keep hearing about complexity, but I am not finding myself making many decisions.

Need this resource->Build it/Find it
Decision makes guy happy->Do it
Faction too big to conquer->Make friends
Fighting enemy->Move troops to front line.
Enemy going around line->Move line

is about all I have to think about. Not trying to bash the game, I see potential, but I am curious what kinds of decisions you find yourselves making?

[basilstaghare]

Its been a 5 star experience for me...still playing my first game since release @ 125 turns in a huge/siwi/slow tech start...

[diamondspider]

Are you playing on easy difficulty? Because I need to constantly fret over things like: how much to pay workers, how much to pay staff, if staff is working on the right things, how much to put into building units vs. how much to put into growth, how to optimize my distribution network (this is more in later phases, but the early phase of pushing back borders is a different feel and skill), what to upgrade next in military and when...

Then there is the fact that I usually am bordering 3-4 minors and 1-3 majors (in current game my borders span 7 different factions). Then there is the OHQ issue of which to build and if any strategems will be involved, along with what attachments. How much to invest in private economy (very important).

If you are playing on easy maybe it doesn't matter much, but normal or higher it all matters.

[fluidwill]

Hugely addictive digital crack, highly recommended.

[TruJared]

ORIGINAL: Fleshbits

I dunno guys. I keep hearing about complexity, but I am not finding myself making many decisions.

Need this resource->Build it/Find it
Decision makes guy happy->Do it
Faction too big to conquer->Make friends
Fighting enemy->Move troops to front line.
Enemy going around line->Move line

is about all I have to think about. Not trying to bash the game, I see potential, but I am curious what kinds of decisions you find yourselves making?

What I've found in my experience so far is that part of the design philosophy behind the game is that you can absolutely play it the way you suggest. However, playing that way does also limit the overall game experience (which, depending on your mood or play style is completely acceptable). I've also found that when I've approached games where I just made decisions "on the surface" I end up slowly creating other problems and before I even realized it, I had several critical issues that I had to deal with. I'll also add that on more difficult planets and game starts the decision are much more important as the game is less forgiving. One of the more fascinating things about this game, for me, is that everyone seems to experience it differently, which is quite the rarity in today's gaming market.

[Grotius]

For me, choosing which techs to pursue is almost always an interesting decision. Choosing which assets to build is often interesting to me, as I often have limited resources (especially metal) and must decide which upgrades have to wait. Choosing between trucks and rail can be interesting: efficiency vs flexibility. Choosing which minors to fight and which not is often interesting. Designing Models is sometimes obvious but sometimes interesting (howitzer or high-velocity gun? energy or conventional weapons?). The hex-and-counter tactical decisions are often interesting to me: bombard more, or push ahead more aggressively? Send armor around the backlines, risking losing supply, or play conservatively? Some Decisions are more interesting than others, I concede; some are too easy. But some make different leaders unhappy, or have a tradeoff between money and something else, so you have to decide which outcome is less bad.

Seems like plenty of interesting decisionmaking to me.

[ezzler]

I got bored very quickly. I don't really know what to do and the game won't assist you. Why can't I extend a dirt road? [go figure it out yourself]
yeah.. but is it lack of resources? or build points? Is there some kind of central supply area that has to be.. {I SAID GO FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF!!]

Ok.. Why can't I get any reinforcements? [Go figure it out for yourself. Watch one of the endless videos, why don't you?]

Yeah. But I just want to know why I don't have /..[GO WATCH A TUTORIAL VIDEO!! GO WATCH THEM ALL!! THEN READ THE MANUAL A FEW MORE TIMES! I'M NOT YOUR GOD-DARN MOTHER! YOU FIGURE IT OUT.. THEN SEARCH A FORUM. DON'T WASTE THIS PROGRAMMER'S TIME WITH MAKING TOOLTIPS. OR ERROR CODE EXPLANATION REASONS. LEARN THE GAME YOURSELF!]

I can't remember another game that I've purchased so recently, and have so little desire to continue playing. I have 14 hours or so. Feels like 400.

[GodwinW]

ORIGINAL: ezzler

I got bored very quickly. I don't really know what to do and the game won't assist you. Why can't I extend a dirt road? [go figure it out yourself]
yeah.. but is it lack of resources? or build points? Is there some kind of central supply area that has to be.. {I SAID GO FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF!!]

Ok.. Why can't I get any reinforcements? [Go figure it out for yourself. Watch one of the endless videos, why don't you?]

Yeah. But I just want to know why I don't have /..[GO WATCH A TUTORIAL VIDEO!! GO WATCH THEM ALL!! THEN READ THE MANUAL A FEW MORE TIMES! I'M NOT YOUR GOD-DARN MOTHER! YOU FIGURE IT OUT.. THEN SEARCH A FORUM. DON'T WASTE THIS PROGRAMMER'S TIME WITH MAKING TOOLTIPS. OR ERROR CODE EXPLANATION REASONS. LEARN THE GAME YOURSELF!]

I can't remember another game that I've purchased so recently, and have so little desire to continue playing. I have 14 hours or so. Feels like 400.

Sorry to hear that.

Trying to answer:

Cannot build a dirt road? -> You do not have enough IP (the white gears). They can be produced by building Industry buildings.
Why can't I get any reinforcements? -> your troops may be out of range. There's a certain range they need to be in for the replacements to make their way there. See the topic of Logistics. Also possible: you haven't made enough. Check the right-hand side button (one of 3 tabs) that says 'Replacements', just under the Workshop where you create ammo and such.

[JWW]

ORIGINAL: ezzler

I got bored very quickly. I don't really know what to do and the game won't assist you. Why can't I extend a dirt road? [go figure it out yourself]
yeah.. but is it lack of resources? or build points? Is there some kind of central supply area that has to be.. {I SAID GO FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF!!]

Ok.. Why can't I get any reinforcements? [Go figure it out for yourself. Watch one of the endless videos, why don't you?]

Yeah. But I just want to know why I don't have /..[GO WATCH A TUTORIAL VIDEO!! GO WATCH THEM ALL!! THEN READ THE MANUAL A FEW MORE TIMES! I'M NOT YOUR GOD-DARN MOTHER! YOU FIGURE IT OUT.. THEN SEARCH A FORUM. DON'T WASTE THIS PROGRAMMER'S TIME WITH MAKING TOOLTIPS. OR ERROR CODE EXPLANATION REASONS. LEARN THE GAME YOURSELF!]

I can't remember another game that I've purchased so recently, and have so little desire to continue playing. I have 14 hours or so. Feels like 400.

One thing. There is information in the bottom right when you can't build a road and for some other things, and even when you can, telling you the cost. Don't know if you have noticed them or not. I didn't at first.

Having said that, yours is a legitimate view and like all games some people are just not going to like this game. It does have a very steep learning curve in my opinion.

[eddieballgame]

ORIGINAL: Fleshbits

I dunno guys. I keep hearing about complexity, but I am not finding myself making many decisions.

Need this resource->Build it/Find it
Decision makes guy happy->Do it
Faction too big to conquer->Make friends
Fighting enemy->Move troops to front line.
Enemy going around line->Move line

is about all I have to think about. Not trying to bash the game, I see potential, but I am curious what kinds of decisions you find yourselves making?

Sounds like every game in one form or another.
I find this game requires a little more thought than most to achieve ones goals.
Particularly when dealing with your leaders/advisors while maintaining (trying to) your leadership ideologies.
Oh, & then there is your damn private sector. [:)]

[FlashXAron_slith]

ORIGINAL: ezzler

I got bored very quickly. I don't really know what to do and the game won't assist you. Why can't I extend a dirt road? [go figure it out yourself]
yeah.. but is it lack of resources? or build points? Is there some kind of central supply area that has to be.. {I SAID GO FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF!!]

Ok.. Why can't I get any reinforcements? [Go figure it out for yourself. Watch one of the endless videos, why don't you?]

Yeah. But I just want to know why I don't have /..[GO WATCH A TUTORIAL VIDEO!! GO WATCH THEM ALL!! THEN READ THE MANUAL A FEW MORE TIMES! I'M NOT YOUR GOD-DARN MOTHER! YOU FIGURE IT OUT.. THEN SEARCH A FORUM. DON'T WASTE THIS PROGRAMMER'S TIME WITH MAKING TOOLTIPS. OR ERROR CODE EXPLANATION REASONS. LEARN THE GAME YOURSELF!]

I can't remember another game that I've purchased so recently, and have so little desire to continue playing. I have 14 hours or so. Feels like 400.

Hmmm understand it, but because of that, that you have to figure it out, what to do , I like such games. After a time, when I know, what is possible and how it is done, I get the most of the time bored ...

what I hate about games and why I stop playing such games, is , when I find out the computer controlled faction cheat like hell, but prentend they have to use the same rules ...
I don't have a problem, when the enemy nation stands for some different race or monsters , which uses different resources, but than there is most of the time a balance problem ...

so why we (brother, friend and me) stopped to play and enjoying it, was when the pretending "human race" pc controlled nations used cheating rules for them ... no support lines or near endless distances, after they need supple, if they need any and of course , producing a lot more from the same cities. No problem to play against mutant hordes, which uses different rulesets , if it is well balanced somehow ...

So waiting for a noncheating pc controlled major nation code
or an option to start planets without mahor nations to play against hordes of mutatet animals or cratures ...

and maybe an option to reduce the random range factor like PC 2 has ...

So checking the forum , if something in that direction is happening.