[FIXED] [1.04b1] Expedition event spawns too far away

[Malevolence]

Start of a new game--regular difficulty. Turn 2.

Per the image, expedition event spawns too far from home zone. In this case, the demand to reach that hex was not triggered. However, at such distances, the event provides little or no value to the player. It also causes a number of urgent warning about units out of supply.

In this case, the unit quickly starved in 5 turns and was defeated by beasts. The beasts then moved over the hexes. There was no hope to move any unit the distance and definitely not through terrain.

For reference, Game Build v 1.04-beta1; Scenario Build v1.04-beta1; Last Game Build used 104-beta1; Scenario Version Number #41.

I am running a Win 10 Pro 64bit, Intel i7-1065G7, 16GB RAM. It is a Surface Pro 7, connected to 2560x1600 display monitor via USB-C. That's Intel Iris Plus integrated graphics.

[zgrssd]

I can confirm this issue. The only time is not a big issue, is when you play on a really small planet - then it can not help spawn close.
Same happens with the "Experienced General asks to liberate his Hometown" quest.

The image should be a good 20 hexes. So even if he managed to get units and a road down there (extremely unlikely, thanks to the terrain), it still would have been out of range for any Truckstop on itself.
Such distances are simply not an option, that early in the game.

[GodwinW]

I've had those way closer very often, also the 'liberate Hometown', last few times I had already liberated it before reading the message :p

Just saying that in order to tell Vic it's oftentimes working fine as intended.

Btw, also saw someone on youtube with a far one. He just camped that unit on the hex and fulfilled the promise. So yes he got lucky that no one attacked him, but it's not automatically a loss even if they spawn far away.

[Vic]

For v104-beta3: The event where you got Free Folk or Adventurers on a distant Hex will now be made less distant if possible. Remember it is always possible to refuse to take this choice. Also will try to avoid to close ones. But it will not always be possible due to the randomness of the map.

[Malevolence]

You can't reasonably build infrastructure to the location to supply the unit. You've already set the acceptable distance with the game design. It's 6 to 10 hexes from an existing supply route.

You can't refuse to watch the unit starve.

I don't recommend using an existing site location for this event. Spawn the site and the unit based on player state.

In the last two cases, the unit spawns, but the choice never triggers.

[GodwinW]

That last one is less convincing. I'd consider this fine, but you may indeed choose to refuse.
It's just 10 hexes to your border and you can go meet the guy in the middle after refusing. They don't starve right away, it takes quite a long time.
Your dirt road, if even needed, just needs to cross 1 hex of forest and can stop in front of the mountains near the river's spring.
No, this isn't hard to bring him home (of course, he can get blocked/killed along the way but that's always a possibility).

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

That last one is less convincing. I'd consider this fine, but you may indeed choose to refuse.
It's just 10 hexes to your border and you can go meet the guy in the middle after refusing. They don't starve right away, it takes quite a long time.
Your dirt road, if even needed, just needs to cross 1 hex of forest and can stop in front of the mountains near the river's spring.
No, this isn't hard to bring him home (of course, he can get blocked/killed along the way but that's always a possibility).

I'll send you the save if you want to prove that? [8D]

I bet you can't do it.

[Gozzon]

I think it is likely to fail due to animals. A lot of these are a lot harder to do once you are on a planet with wildlife

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

That last one is less convincing. I'd consider this fine, but you may indeed choose to refuse.
It's just 10 hexes to your border and you can go meet the guy in the middle after refusing. They don't starve right away, it takes quite a long time.
Your dirt road, if even needed, just needs to cross 1 hex of forest and can stop in front of the mountains near the river's spring.
No, this isn't hard to bring him home (of course, he can get blocked/killed along the way but that's always a possibility).

I'll send you the save if you want to prove that? [8D]

I bet you can't do it.

Is that a Militia only start, on a planet with wildlife?

Because that sounds like you are actively making it impossible, when a 1 army start could have done it easily.

[GodwinW]

Bet taken.

And like I said: getting attacked or blocked by enemies/neutrals does not count, in that case it'll be unresolved. PM me for email address.

And to be make sure there's no misunderstanding: the bet is that I can bring those troops back alive, not that I'll keep the hex (basically I would refuse here as well, which has to remain a valid choice outcome).

Also, disagree with spawning in sites, not a good solution for this game imo.

[Malevolence]

I'll go back an look for the autosave for you.

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

Also, disagree with spawning in sites, not a good solution for this game imo.

What? What makes you think game objects aren't already spawning? What do you think would be the impact of spawning a hex perk site?

[GodwinW]

Because I've been taking specific free folk towns, walking towards them, and then the next turn there was a unit there. Either the free folk town event or the liberate my hometown event or the adventurers.

So they use existing ones. If they had spawned in they had ruined my optimal exploration decisions.

I am not against spawning them in when I don't know about it, but if this is done after game start it will just push things far away, especially with me having sent spies for example and seeing entire bordering zones.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

Because I've been taking specific free folk towns, walking towards them, and then the next turn there was a unit there. Either the free folk town event or the liberate my hometown event or the adventurers.

So they use existing ones. If they had spawned in they had ruined my optimal exploration decisions.

I am not against spawning them in when I don't know about it, but if this is done after game start it will just push things far away, especially with me having sent spies for example and seeing entire bordering zones.

If you knew about everything, how do cards like archeology push still find new things in the middle of your territory?
Events forcing you to adapt your plans is kinda the point of using any form of randomness in a game.

If it is spawned in, it can be spawned in at a universally acceptable distance to your logistics system. Being tied down to existing Free Folk Cities or Hex Assets is the cause of the issues.

[GodwinW]

"If you knew about everything": Where do you get this idea? Irrelevant. I do not know about everything.

It's fine if new things are discovered. I played Elemental: War of Magic, and also Thea (1 and 2): spawning SUCH stuff in ruins the world and immersion/believability for me. Discovering deposits underground is fine of course.
Spawning in free folk towns is not.

Discovering hex perks is also fine.

I just really appreciate that the towns can be close to your borders where you already see them. And that it's grounded in the world's reality. If they spawn in they might not vary as much in distance. And variation = king.
Being able to predict how far from my borders it spawns would downgrade the game for me.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

"If you knew about everything": Where do you get this idea? Irrelevant. I do not know about everything.

It's fine if new things are discovered. I played Elemental: War of Magic, and also Thea (1 and 2): spawning SUCH stuff in ruins the world and immersion/believability for me. Discovering deposits underground is fine of course.
Spawning in free folk towns is not.

Discovering hex perks is also fine.

I just really appreciate that the towns can be close to your borders where you already see them. And that it's grounded in the world's reality. If they spawn in they might not vary as much in distance. And variation = king.
Being able to predict how far from my borders it spawns would downgrade the game for me.

So the game is better for you if 90% of the time you can not choose the option, because it is plain to far away to be doable no mater the effort?
Because that absolutely makes no sense to me.

We just want them to spawn a fair distance from our supply bases.
Not so close it is a no-brainer.
Not so far, it is in the other hemisphere or 6 timeszones away from our farthest road.

[GodwinW]

90%?

Understand this game is random AND has many many different starts which probably randomize things differently. I have had those guys too far away ONCE. Just once in ... pff... 15 serious starts?

That's not 90%.

Furthermore, I also wrote you can chance it. You do not need to connect. Keeping the hex with a staring unit of adventurers is enough for the word score bonus.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

90%?

Understand this game is random AND has many many different starts which probably randomize things differently. I have had those guys too far away ONCE. Just once in ... pff... 15 serious starts?

That's not 90%.

Furthermore, I also wrote you can chance it. You do not need to connect. Keeping the hex with a staring unit of adventurers is enough for the word score bonus.

Let me guess, you only play on small maps where they are forced to be close?

Quick News: A lot of people play on larger then small maps. And there it is 90%. Without animals, just marrauders, distances and not having nearly enough IP to run the roads.

[GodwinW]

5 games on medium, 10 on small.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

Bet taken.

And like I said: getting attacked or blocked by enemies/neutrals does not count, in that case it'll be unresolved. PM me for email address.

And to be make sure there's no misunderstanding: the bet is that I can bring those troops back alive, not that I'll keep the hex (basically I would refuse here as well, which has to remain a valid choice outcome).

Here is the expedition save. The decision/demand never triggered.

This is the game that blew up in my face only 10-12 turns later. Feel free to experience the early game decline and survive as well if you like.

I'll not spoil the issues, but much of the unhappiness has already begun.

Savegame: https://we.tl/t-JihcWTWpjZ

You will note in the picture above, it's not only the distance to friendly territory that matters. It's the distance to the supply route. [:)]

I take this as good fun, and will be as pleased if you beat the test. [:'(]

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

Bet taken.

And like I said: getting attacked or blocked by enemies/neutrals does not count, in that case it'll be unresolved. PM me for email address.

And to be make sure there's no misunderstanding: the bet is that I can bring those troops back alive, not that I'll keep the hex (basically I would refuse here as well, which has to remain a valid choice outcome).

Any luck? How did it go?