Open Beta Patch v1.26o2 (12 may 2025)

Stop here if you are eager to try in advance new patches! Please note that these patches are not compatible with the Steam version of the game.

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tikhun
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21t (29th of sep 2023)

Post by tikhun »

Uemon wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:10 am Have you ever acually gotten RPGs to stop (kill) tanks? I have never. I have seen AT guns wreck tanks many times. I usually get around mobility issue by using APCs. Every time i tried to use RPGs they just get wiped by the dozens :|
Yes, I recently lost one war in a multi-player game just because I didn't have an RPG model in time. I tried to field AT guns, but they are too costly to produce for the entire front, their mobility and readiness loss for movement without APC/trucks is an issue too.. Later when I managed to get my RPG infantry, things started to look better for me and worse for enemy tanks. It was too late anyway to turn the war, but that's a different story.

Had a similar experience with them in a couple of other games too.
AT guns are still great when you can afford them en-masse, that's true.

PS: I Also haven't tried yet how Micro-Nuke RPG look now after the nerf, but they used to be an ulimate weapon of destruction, extremely powerful agains infantry and tanks alike.
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Vic
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21u (3th of october 2023)

Post by Vic »

Uemon wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:08 pm The what do you call it, odds calculator guesstimate mechanic part of the interface is not working properly when calculating odds against enemy units that are cut off from their supply lines and out of supplies.

Basically i have cut off an entire AI frontline from their logiscits. They are currently sitting at -69% supplies. Every time i attack one of those units, no matter what with, or no matter which unit, i get 1 : 367 (or something similar) attack odds. Despite the fact that im either wiping them out or pushing them away with 0 losses every single time.
could you send me a save game to vic@vrdesigns.net with a hint which hex to attack?

obligado!
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Vic
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21u (3th of october 2023)

Post by Vic »

The strength of the RPG is in the fact that it will perform really well against tanks in heavy terrain and/or heavy entrenchment. Using them in an offensive role especially out in the open is not a great idea.

APCs like buggies allows a MG to move into good firing range when on the offensive. This does perform very well against infantry only defenders. Light tanks (or higher) , AT-guns however will hurt them.
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zgrssd
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21t (29th of sep 2023)

Post by zgrssd »

Uemon wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:07 pm However i will still claim that compared to non mechanized and motorized infantry, they are insane. A single independent stack of APC + infantry can punch through infantry almost as easily as tanks can. At least light tanks.
The main thing is that they can bring quite a decent amount of armor. Check "5.12.3.4. Callibre Modifier" in the manual.

Calibre calculation of Small Arms (20mm) vs 100mm is a solid -80%. That infantry won't scratch the APC/Buggy/Light tank with 100mm armor. So it is a mater of them just driving around with impunity.
"If you are the only one to bring a tank, you win." This even applies if your "tank" is only a APC. Unless the enemy has RPG's.

Now RPG drastically change the math. They count as 100mm weapon (light), 200mm weapon (heavy) or ignore Callibre Calculation outright (atomic). On top of their significant hard attack. They will hurt them. A lot. On the defensive, as is normal for Infantry:
Foot is mostly defensive
Soldiers on foot without ranged attack have their Soft and Hard Attack
Values divided by two.
Doing a offense with RPG is like doing a offense with MG's - a total waste of ammunition, resources and readiness. But I guess you have to do it, if you lack anything better.
solops
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21u (3th of october 2023)

Post by solops »

Vic wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:12 am The strength of the RPG is in the fact that it will perform really well against tanks in heavy terrain and/or heavy entrenchment. Using them in an offensive role especially out in the open is not a great idea.

APCs like buggies allows a MG to move into good firing range when on the offensive. This does perform very well against infantry only defenders. Light tanks (or higher) , AT-guns however will hurt them.
Spot on! (Of course :D ). zgrssd is as well. My standard is to use the stock MG brigades (800 inf + 200 MG/unit) and then to add 200-300 RPGs per unit when enemy tanks appear, upgrading the RPGs aggressively over time. This works great over time for occupying and holding territory. These troops even have limited offensive use against enemy infantry. I add in light and medium independent tank units when I can afford them for offensive punch. I boost each of them with 20-30 Mech artillery via custom OOB when possible. The artillery makes a difference. Later, when I'm rich in metals and fuel I field armor formations. Infantry holds ground (when properly equipped), armor takes ground and artillery kills stuff (or perhaps, it makes infantry and tanks real killers). Artillery really helps out with fortifications and terrain obstacles, especially if you can mount repeated attacks in a turn.
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Uemon
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21u (3th of october 2023)

Post by Uemon »

Vic wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:02 am
Uemon wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:08 pm The what do you call it, odds calculator guesstimate mechanic part of the interface is not working properly when calculating odds against enemy units that are cut off from their supply lines and out of supplies.

Basically i have cut off an entire AI frontline from their logiscits. They are currently sitting at -69% supplies. Every time i attack one of those units, no matter what with, or no matter which unit, i get 1 : 367 (or something similar) attack odds. Despite the fact that im either wiping them out or pushing them away with 0 losses every single time.
could you send me a save game to vic@vrdesigns.net with a hint which hex to attack?

obligado!
I found a couple of autosaves but here is the thing: now when i reload them, interface is no longer being weird. It shows like 50:1 38:1 odds etc. No more 1 : 387.

What do?

Do you still want me to send you that game save?
Uemon
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21t (29th of sep 2023)

Post by Uemon »

zgrssd wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:51 am
Uemon wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:07 pm However i will still claim that compared to non mechanized and motorized infantry, they are insane. A single independent stack of APC + infantry can punch through infantry almost as easily as tanks can. At least light tanks.
The main thing is that they can bring quite a decent amount of armor. Check "5.12.3.4. Callibre Modifier" in the manual.

Calibre calculation of Small Arms (20mm) vs 100mm is a solid -80%. That infantry won't scratch the APC/Buggy/Light tank with 100mm armor. So it is a mater of them just driving around with impunity.
"If you are the only one to bring a tank, you win." This even applies if your "tank" is only a APC. Unless the enemy has RPG's.

Now RPG drastically change the math. They count as 100mm weapon (light), 200mm weapon (heavy) or ignore Callibre Calculation outright (atomic). On top of their significant hard attack. They will hurt them. A lot. On the defensive, as is normal for Infantry:
Foot is mostly defensive
Soldiers on foot without ranged attack have their Soft and Hard Attack
Values divided by two.
Doing a offense with RPG is like doing a offense with MG's - a total waste of ammunition, resources and readiness. But I guess you have to do it, if you lack anything better.
I feel like you and i are playing a different game. I recruit RPGs, i put them on the frontline, i use them on defense, AI comes with tanks, bullies straight through them, and murders them by dozen usually without any casualties inflicted to the AI. By contrast, when i put laser MGs in the same role, they often get pushed back, take casualties, but will actually inflict substantial damage to the attacker, including tanks. How do you design your RPGs? Maybe im doing something wrong with designs :shock:

Edit: though truth be told, now that i actually fought an AI with substantial amount of heavy tanks, i should note that all my units got bullied and slaughtered every time AI attacked, with the exception of AT. It was a super uncomfortable fight, not gonna lie.
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21u (3th of october 2023)

Post by Soar_Slitherine »

RPGs are trash without the relevant techs, they need around 3 weapon or armor techs to do more than readiness chip damage when defending against even just basic light tanks unless they have a terrain advantage. With the higher-end weapons and armor, they become quite good (extremely good once you have micro-nuke RPGs). They do need to be deployed in large enough numbers that howitzer tanks can't just blow them all away in the first few combat rounds.

EDIT: The recently added Hyper Explosive Ammo tech gives howitzers a further boost to soft attack in the late game, which may have altered the balance against the RPGs' favor.
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grime
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21t (29th of sep 2023)

Post by grime »

Uemon wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:27 pm
Edit: though truth be told, now that i actually fought an AI with substantial amount of heavy tanks, i should note that all my units got bullied and slaughtered every time AI attacked, with the exception of AT. It was a super uncomfortable fight, not gonna lie.
Maybe it's just me, but I find tactical bombers are the solution to this. It's a bit more complicated now that the AI actually builds an air force, but making sure to bomb the hell out of tanks reduces their combat readiness so they're no longer really effective.
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21u (3th of october 2023)

Post by Soar_Slitherine »

Yes, aircraft are an effective hard counter to tanks (when given weapons with enough penetration to not suffer huge caliber matrix penalties). Especially now that their ammo usage is no longer disproportionately huge in comparison.
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youngmatt10
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21u (3th of october 2023)

Post by youngmatt10 »

Vic- this is the coolest game ever i will buy any dlc you make for shadow empire.
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Vic
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21v (23th of october 2023)

Post by Vic »

bump! Just posted subversion V.

I am working towards a new release patch in about 2 weeks time.

Feel free to discuss any remaining issues caused in all the recent changes.

Best wishes,
Vic
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uclafan101
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21v (23th of october 2023)

Post by uclafan101 »

I just started a game a few days ago on v1.21u, and it’s on a big ocean planet where the change in bulk transport would have a huge impact in the game, so I want to know that change is within my v1.21u game when I update the patch to v1.21v.

I know it states that this change will be included in older games (not noted with *) but what is the best way to know my old game updated to 1.21v if it is fairly early in the game? (Can’t interact with nth much).
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mroyer
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21v (23th of october 2023)

Post by mroyer »

uclafan101 wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:20 pmI know it states that this change will be included in older games (not noted with *) but what is the best way to know my old game updated to 1.21v if it is fairly early in the game? (Can’t interact with nth much).
Yes, same exact question here - we're six or seven turns into a v1.21u game. The bulk transport feature sounds hugely important and I expect we'd need to invest another 10+ turns to find out for sure whether we see the effect.

-Mark R.
eddieballgame
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21v (23th of october 2023)

Post by eddieballgame »

Changelist 1.21v (#196)
-For some reason Minors without City in their Zone like Arachnids, Mutants, Slavers, Nomads have not been placed on the map since quite a long time now. Don’t know where exactly in time this error snook in, but this rather severe oversight has been fixed now.

I have been wondering why these have not appeared for some time...thanks Vic. :)
Thrake
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21v (23th of october 2023)

Post by Thrake »

Vic wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:53 pm bump! Just posted subversion V.

I am working towards a new release patch in about 2 weeks time.

Feel free to discuss any remaining issues caused in all the recent changes.

Best wishes,
Vic
It may just be anecdotal evidence but I seem to only receive some faction stratagems. For exemple I didn't get a single hero of the nation at turn 60 but I've got plenty of militia barracks.
zgrssd
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21v (23th of october 2023)

Post by zgrssd »

Thrake wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:38 am
Vic wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:53 pm bump! Just posted subversion V.

I am working towards a new release patch in about 2 weeks time.

Feel free to discuss any remaining issues caused in all the recent changes.

Best wishes,
Vic
It may just be anecdotal evidence but I seem to only receive some faction stratagems. For exemple I didn't get a single hero of the nation at turn 60 but I've got plenty of militia barracks.
Hero of the Nation is unlocked by Submission, the Authority 50 Regime Feat. It has nothing to do with Milita Barracks.

Also, you can check the weights for each card somewhere in the Reports.
Magirot
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21v (23th of october 2023)

Post by Magirot »

zgrssd wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:20 pm Hero of the Nation is unlocked by Submission, the Authority 50 Regime Feat. It has nothing to do with Milita Barracks.
I think the meaning was that the regime is eligible for both Militia Project and Hero of the Nation, but the factions are gifting only one of them. I've felt it's always been like that, though, with factions focusing on only one faction stratagem (maybe the latest that becomes available?) instead of there being much variance.

zgrssd wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:20 pmAlso, you can check the weights for each card somewhere in the Reports.
Not for faction cards (which are gifted by factions), I don't think? They aren't generated through the same system.
Thrake
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21v (23th of october 2023)

Post by Thrake »

Yes, I'm only getting a subset of the faction stratagems I'm elligible for. It felt biased before, but less so.
Xxzard
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.21v (23th of october 2023)

Post by Xxzard »

Completed a short campaign (AI hard, tech 3 city state militia only start) on subversion 1.21v. It's funny, I hadn't noticed the nomads, etc. being gone but it's great having them back :D

In my game, the AI used support weapons a bit more effectively. I saw arty, air support, buggy and motorcycle units, a light tank brigade, and a medium tank battalion. AI Infantry equipment was good, and upgraded appropriately.

I had a few observations. The AI was a bit more challenging, but pulled back from defensive positions too quickly and did not put up enough resistance at the gates of their capital city. The AI also sometimes exposed vulnerable units without support, such as a single artillery battalion against my stacked front line. AI tank designs were relatively good, but did not upgrade with side skirts by the end of the game. The AI built apparently tons of aircraft (maybe FoW but a battle report showed 270 enemy aircraft in a single airstrike) but they were relatively ineffective, and did not intercept any of my own air strikes.

I noted one small possible bug on a xeno diplomat stratagem roll. The reported roll was 216, but in looking at the Skill Roll(s) made it showed "Skill level = 11. Leader Stat bonus = 16. Leader relation modifier = 18. D100 ROLL = 81." I'm not sure how that added up to 216.
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