Stormtroopers represented?

[lessavini]

Hi! I just got the game and Im having a blast but something is not clear to me: how are shock troops depicted in the game? I see some distinct units like ANZACs and Mountain corps but can't find shock troops units like Italian Arditi, German stormtroopers, A-H jagdkommandos, etc.

I noticed in the Ludendorff offense scenario that Germany has more high-leveled infantry tech, plus more experienced infantry units (some starting with 12 strength), which maybe answers my question for this specific scenario? AKA shock troops are simply hi-level and experienced infantry?

But are they represented in the main campaigns, specially on the 1917 one, which is the date where this "tech" was developed (after Brusilov offense by most historical accounts)? If it's not represented as a specific unit in the game, then perhaps it's the same as the Ludendorff scenario and shock tactics are simply represented by high-level infantry tech? Can I assume it confers bigger "de-entrenchment" effect or something similar?

Thanks in advance.

[mdsmall]

Hi - The absence of German stormtrooper units is a noticeable gap in the game. To the extent that they are there, they would be represented by German corps which have gained one, two or even three experience points and a comparable level of elite reinforcements. But any corps in any army can gain this level of experience, if carefully managed.

I have tried to remedy that in my Icarus mod for SC WW1. See the latest Guide to the mod posted under the Mods and Scenarios sub-forum. My next iteration of the mod (which will be out before the end of this month) offers a new approach to German stormtroopers. They are a special kind of infantry that has enhanced combat and de-entrenchment capabilities and some capacity to evade losses when attacking.

[lessavini]

Hi - The absence of German stormtrooper units is a noticeable gap in the game. To the extent that they are there, they would be represented by German corps which have gained one, two or even three experience points and a comparable level of elite reinforcements. But any corps in any army can gain this level of experience, if carefully managed.

I have tried to remedy that in my Icarus mod for SC WW1. See the latest Guide to the mod posted under the Mods and Scenarios sub-forum. My next iteration of the mod (which will be out before the end of this month) offers a new approach to German stormtroopers. They are a special kind of infantry that has enhanced combat and de-entrenchment capabilities and some capacity to evade losses when attacking.

Thanks for clarifying. A shame the default game doesn't represent stormtroopers in a more assertive manner. I'll take a look at Icarus after I get more proficient with the game.

Another way of representing them would be giving special effects (like de-entrenchment or de-moralization) to the highest tech level of Germany infantry only. According to the manual, the editor allows giving a unit type different stats for different nations.

[mdsmall]

Another way of representing them would be giving special effects (like de-entrenchment or de-moralization) to the highest tech level of Germany infantry only. According to the manual, the editor allows giving a unit type different stats for different nations.

I thought a lot about using that approach in designing the Icarus mod. There are two problems with it. First, it means the Germans potentially have far more stormtrooper corps than they could build historically. Second, it is hard to scale the increased capabilities with existing techs. For example, I thought of allowing German corps only to reach level 3 in Infantry Weapons, and having that represent their stormtroopers. The problem is that if you keep the restriction of only 1 chit invested in infantry weapons, they would never reach level 3 until mid to late 1918; and if you allow Germany alone to invest 2 chits, they reach Infantry Weapons level 1 and 2 for all their corps much earlier than any other power.

In the next iteration of the Icarus mod (Version 6.4), I introduce a new special tech for building stormtroopers which only the Germans can use. From my pre-release play-tests so far, it seems to be an elegant solution to the problem.

[lessavini]

@mdmsmall, I don't have enough experience to judge your points, but they seem coherent to me. About your new tech: would it make new units of stormtroopers available? See, my problem with that approach (making whole stormtroopers units) is that the game is based on a corps scale, not battalion or divisions (which I think was how stormtroopers were used) so it sounds a bit off. Though Ill reserve judgement until trying your mod.

Another idea: how about an event triggering for Germany mid/late 1917, giving the player a number of elite/max XP units, accompanied by a pop-up window with a cool art explaining those troops are the result of "recent innovations" in infiltration tactics by Germany? Something like that.

Edit: by the way, coincidentally we're talking about this exact topic in this thread at the Steam forums. A user there brought some interesting info about the stormtroopers. Maybe worth a look: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1096930/ ... 902766714/

[mdsmall]

Yes, the new tech in the Icarus mod will increase Germany's ability to build stormtroopers at 2 units per increment. They start at zero and can reach a maximum of 8 when they get to level 4.

One of the advantages of this approach is that it avoids designating a fixed date by which stormtroopers are available. It also avoids writing new Decision Events for specific dates to give the Germans stormtrooper units (I experimented with both of these approaches in earlier iterations of the mod).

Historically, Germany started deploying them in late 1917 and they were the centre-piece of the April 1918 offensive. But Germany could have invested earlier in developing these units. This approach leaves it up to the CP player - with the limits of tech research speed - to determine when they become available in numbers and at a capability which is significant.

As for your point about unit size, that is true of various units in the game (e.g. artillery batteries and mountain corps). You have to accept a certain level of abstraction dictated by the game mechanics in representing different sized units.

[lessavini]

Yes, the new tech in the Icarus mod will increase Germany's ability to build stormtroopers at 2 units per increment. They start at zero and can reach a maximum of 8 when they get to level 4.

One of the advantages of this approach is that it avoids designating a fixed date by which stormtroopers are available. It also avoids writing new Decision Events for specific dates to give the Germans stormtrooper units (I experimented with both of these approaches in earlier iterations of the mod).

Historically, Germany started deploying them in late 1917 and they were the centre-piece of the April 1918 offensive. But Germany could have invested earlier in developing these units. This approach leaves it up to the CP player - with the limits of tech research speed - to determine when they become available in numbers and at a capability which is significant.

As for your point about unit size, that is true of various units in the game (e.g. artillery batteries and mountain corps). You have to accept a certain level of abstraction dictated by the game mechanics in representing different sized units.

Well, if the game already abstracts other unit types (arty, mountain, etc) into corps then you have a solid point. I didn't know that.

I look forward to trying your mod!

[mdsmall]

Hi - I just released Version 6.4 of the Icarus mod, including the new tech for Stormtroopers as mentioned above. See the thread titled "Icarus Mod Version 6 in Preliminary Release" in the Mods and Scenarios sub-forum above for a fuller explanation and a link to my Dropbox where you can download the files.

[lessavini]

Thanks Michael, I'll check it out.

Something interesting I've found: the BlueMax mod has ready-made, unused stormtrooper/shock troop counters in it's asset files. These have red nato icons and are available for all nations in appropriate form (eg: the Italian ones have Arditi/Farina armor). Neat little detail that the author considerated but probably never saw use.

[mdsmall]

That's good to hear. I use the 3-D sprites (since I learned to play the game with them), and I assigned the German Colonial Corps sprites to represent Stormtroopers. But I know other players have used the Blue Max sprites with the Icarus mod.
It would be interesting to know if the Blue Max stormtrooper sprites pop-up when used with the Icarus mod.

[shri]

Another way of representing them would be giving special effects (like de-entrenchment or de-moralization) to the highest tech level of Germany infantry only. According to the manual, the editor allows giving a unit type different stats for different nations.

I thought a lot about using that approach in designing the Icarus mod. There are two problems with it. First, it means the Germans potentially have far more stormtrooper corps than they could build historically. Second, it is hard to scale the increased capabilities with existing techs. For example, I thought of allowing German corps only to reach level 3 in Infantry Weapons, and having that represent their stormtroopers. The problem is that if you keep the restriction of only 1 chit invested in infantry weapons, they would never reach level 3 until mid to late 1918; and if you allow Germany alone to invest 2 chits, they reach Infantry Weapons level 1 and 2 for all their corps much earlier than any other power.

In the next iteration of the Icarus mod (Version 6.4), I introduce a new special tech for building stormtroopers which only the Germans can use. From my pre-release play-tests so far, it seems to be an elegant solution to the problem.

You have given the best solution possible.
The stormtroopers were picked veteran volunteers and there were only a few 100k of them in an army of several million. They were quite simply irreplaceable (beyond a certain number of casualties). However, they were exceptionally well trained and well armed and a real war-changing weapon. All infantry armies post WW1 have eventually adopted the tactics and training of the stormtroopers.

Stormtroopers were having some key ingredients which existed only in the German army back then (albeit in limited quantity)-
Auftragstaktik (mission based tactics) the most important part
Flamethrowers, grenades, better carbines etc which even other armies had in some numbers.
Better training and exceptionally high morale of the veteran volunteers like Ernst Junger (for example).

[lessavini]

Little tangent to show the unused shock troop icons in BlueMax mod folders, which I found pretty neat. I grouped these together as a sample, they're German's sturmtruppen, A-H's jagdkommandos, Italian arditi and British's Anzacs/Canadians, and their NATO symbol. There are equivalents to each power in the game in their respective folders.





By the way, the overall mod looks like this (on zoom levels 1 and 2 respectively):