Shadow of the Tsars-Poles into Russia

Strategic Command is back, and this time it is bringing you the Great War!

Moderator: MOD_Strategic_Command_3

formerlybalbo
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:55 am

Incredible White Strength

Post by formerlybalbo »

I am extremely late to this topic, and I am un-sure as to how to create a post or a thread of my own so I will put it here instead.

So, I am very new to Strategic Command 3, and I decided to pick it up and after watching OldCrowBalthazor's excellent MP game with StrategyWolfGaming (I have since also watched his older series with Duedman), and I have since then played the Whites three times and the Bolsheviks once, all games being against the AI on intermediate difficulty. This is an absolutely excellent scenario!

However, what I am not new to is the Russian Civil War. I am planning on an alternate-history series of my own centred on the RCW, and in conjunction with that, I have been trawling through Google translated Russian Wikipedia articles for several years, I have read one of General Wrangel's memoirs "Always With Honour", and I also have one of General Denikin's memoirs "Russian Turmoil" ready for once I'm finished College, as well as Hannula's new trilogy, and I am also hoping to eventually pick up General Drozdovsky's memoirs as well.

Why I say all of this is for one reason; the Whites are absolutely insanely powerful in this scenario (in all honestly, the Bolsheviks are also too strong, but the problem is more pronounced with the Whites), particularly some factions. Now, all of the recommendations that I am going to make are purely in the interest of realism (and perhaps also gameplay balance), so if having fun is the primary motivator (which is completely understandable, realism can often ruin things), then whomever may see this can safely ignore the rest of this post. I also completely understand that peoples time is extremely limited and precious, so if these recommendations are also rejected on those grounds, no hard feelings!

I will start with Yudenich and the North-Westerners, they are incredibly strong in comparison to how they were in OTL (I have attached an image of their actual strength just before Operation White Sword in OTL). I believe this may arise from Yudenich having two formations that were designated as Corps (von der Pahlen's and Arsenyev's 1st and 2nd Rifle Corps), however, these Corps were never actually larger than brigade strength in OTL at roughly 6,000 men each. In total, Yudenich never even had a full strength infantry division in OTL. Now, of course, in alternate-history, if Yudenich had been able to capture Pskov, Petrograd, Novgorod, Ostrov and so on, of course he would have been able to raise more men, but the amount that he currently has at the beginning as well as in the production queue automatically is far too large, and his build limits are also most likely too high, though perhaps they could increase as he captures certain objectives?

Bermondt-Avalov's Western Russian Volunteer Army might be an interesting way to remedy this situation without crippling the North-Westerners. They are already partially represented in-game already via the Freikorps, however from what I can remember there is only two brigades worth of Freikorps (~12,000 men), when in OTL there were 40,000 Germans (two divisions worth) and fifteen thousand Russians (almost equivalent to Yudenich) in the WRVA. There are some interesting options for some decisions here. The Germans were only there for bread and land in the Baltic, and they went home with von der Goltz as soon as it became clear that they weren't going to get it. Perhaps there could be a decision for the NW Whites to declare war on the Baltics in exchange for two Freikorps infantry divisions and a Russian infantry division (an extremely dangerous gambit, though perhaps the Poles could also get a decision to back-stab the Lithuanians in order to assist?), while rejecting the decision would just result in only gaining the Russian infantry division as the Germans would go home?

I will now talk about the Ural Whites. In all honesty, they are fine for the most part, Gaida and Khanzhin are fairly well represented, but Dutov, oh God Dutov, just where in the name of God is he getting his three infantry corps and a cavalry division from? He never came close to that kind of number of men in OTL, and the Orenburg Cossacks were primarily a cavalry force, their lack of infantry was the main reason that they couldn't actually take Orenburg in OTL. Three cavalry brigades (or divisions, at absolute most), and a infantry brigade (or division, again, at absolute most) would definitely be more accurate. However, I would then counter-balance this by having Dutov immediately and automatically stand up another three cavalry divisions and an infantry division after liberating Orenburg (similar to what happens with the Astrakhan Cossacks) as the Orenburgians were the third largest Cossack Host (which is actually well represented by them having large build limits after being liberated). I don't have as concrete of a source on Dutov's IRL strength as I do with Yudenich, but I would not assume that he had anything in excess of 30,000 men at the most, and I would again assume that the issue is that extremely under-strength formations that were designated as corps on OTL are being represented as full-strength in-game.

With regards to the Poles, they have absolutely incredible operational freedom, the idea of them being able to advance into the Donbass with impunity is hilarious. I would recommend that they should be restricted from advancing beyond Galicia until the North-Westerners, Northern Whites and Ural Whites have been defeated, and perhaps also until the Southern Whites are below a certain FS value, crossing it should yield the current penalties that crossing Lake Naroch and the Berezina currently does. Once those prerequisites have been met, even then they should only be able to advance to the Dnieper, crossing it should yield the current penalties that crossing Lake Naroch and the Berezina currently does. There could be an interesting decision here though, where in exchange for Petliura subordinating himself to Poland (and swapping from a minor of the Southern Whites to a minor of the Poles, if that is possible) and a considerable drop (perhaps 2,500?) in White FS, the Poles can then operate west of the Dnieper before those prerequisites are met without penalties, to represent the IRL agreement between Petliura and Pilsudski, as well as the Kiev Expedition in 1920 (perhaps there should be a date requirement as well?). Rejecting this decision would of course keep the Poles in Galicia until the prerequisites are met, and perhaps result in a small loss of Polish FS.

For a few events for the Southern Whites, I would recommend representing Vasilchenko's Yekaterinoslav March right at the start of the game (it was only the size of a regiment, so perhaps a very small FS boost and MPP gain for the Southern Whites, effectively just for flavour?). The agreement between the Galician Ukrainians and General Denikin's forces in November of 1919 (they were infuriated by Petliura's acceptance of the loss of Galicia and transferred themselves to the control of the Armed Forces of Southern Russia) is also of interest, perhaps a small FS boost as well as an infantry division? Finally, there could be a decision to refuse to recognise Admiral Kolchak of the Ural Whites as the Supreme Ruler of Russia, resulting in a small FS drop for the North-Western, Northern and Ural Whites, and a small FS boost for the Southern Whites. This could be a kind of a gambit where the Whites are in retreat all across the front, but the Southern Whites are advancing and the player wants to hinge all their bets on Denikin. There could also be a similar enough decision here for the Ural Whites, where if their FS has dropped to a certain value, they have below a certain number of units, or they have lost certain objectives, or a combination of those factors, they could choose to transfer the title of Supreme Ruler to Denikin, in exchange for a substantial FS loss (2,500?) for the Ural Whites and a sizable FS gain (1,000?) for the Southern Whites, again being a gambit on betting it all on Denikin?

Well, I think that's about all I have to say today, hopefully someone sees this and finds it to be an interesting read, even if nothing comes of it. Thanks again so much for creating such an interesting scenario!
Post Reply

Return to “Strategic Command: World War I”