Spotting by Subs in Silent Mode

[mdsmall]

I thought I would repost this exchange in its own thread, rather than having it buried under the important list of changes in the latest update.

I see from this update that the change in silent sub spotting already introduced in WiE now applies as well to SC WW1. This is a pretty significant change - especially for Germany which is the only power in any of the SC games that uses subs as its primary naval weapon. It will make it much harder for the Germans to scout the Entente blockade lines and counter-attack using other subs, and if they chose to risk it, surface ships. Seven of the nine major powers in the game have subs and spotting in silent mode is one of their major uses.

I would be interested in knowing what the rationale was for making this change at this point in the evolution of the SC series. How do other players think this will affect play by both sides in this game?

Do you mean this one?

Subs in Silent mode no longer spot along their movement path, only their from their final moved to position.

If so, in testing it felt that it was giving away too much information, and IIRC there was a lack of consistency/something odd about the way it worked.

[mdsmall]

Copying another player comment and explanation from Bill.

so question... which I will probably just have to go with trial and error (or spend a lot time testing this w/hot seat)...
if a sub in silent mode moves one hex and stops...is that the "final" location?... or can player go to other ships... then back to the sub and move more?
Regards to all....and love this game.

You can go back to it until it has used up all its Action Points.

[CaesarAug]

Bill’s answer is not altogether clear to me, given the latest update modifications to sub spotting when in Silent Mode.

That the “final” move can be any distance the player so chooses up to the absolute maximum hex range is just standard gameplay. As is selecting the sub, deselecting it and going back to further move it.

The question rather of sub spotting with the latest patches, when in Silent Mode, is what determines the “final” move for that new spotting parameter? When the player deselects the sub after moving it, even if it’s not at its maximum hex range? If so then reselecting the sub for further movement will no longer constitute further spotting? Is this the new dynamic?

[BillRunacre]

Silent subs previously spotted ships along their whole movement path as well as at their final destination. Now they just do so at their final destination(s).

I hope that clarifies, and some playing in Hotseat mode should help get the hang of the changes too.

[Christolos]

As I posted in the v1.15.00 update thread:

"So in terms of a sub moving in silent mode not spotting until it has made its final move/moved to its final moved to position, it follows that it can only spot something in its final move, if its final move uses its last action point. Is that what is meant?"

So it is still not all together clear to me too...

[BillRunacre]

My previous sentence is very exact:

Silent subs previously spotted ships along their whole movement path as well as at their final destination. Now they just do so at their final destination(s).

I've highlighted the crucial part, and they will continue to spot at their final destination(s), as it does not matter whether it is the subs' first move, second move, or last move.

[Christolos]

Thanks Bill.

But as soon as the sub spots something, it has to stop moving, right?

If so, I think I get it.

Cheers,

C

[mdsmall]

But as soon as the sub spots something, it has to stop moving, right?

My reading of the patch is the reverse: as soon as a silent sub stops moving, it can spot something next to it (and risk a surprise combat). If it has AP remaining, it can move again. But what it can no longer do is spot naval units while carrying out a silent move.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

But as soon as the sub spots something, it has to stop moving, right?

My reading of the patch is the reverse: as soon as a silent sub stops moving, it can spot something next to it (and risk a surprise combat). If it has AP remaining, it can move again. But what it can no longer do is spot naval units while carrying out a silent move.

This is correct.
(Still don't like this mechanism btw....but I guess we have to adapt ourselves.)
First saw this in the Pacific Beta. Thought it was a design specific to that title. I was wrong...

[Christolos]

Thanks mdsmall and OldCrowBalthazor, and Bill too!

I get it now.

Cheers,

C