Here‘s 420MPPs, little Hans

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Erse
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Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:11 am

Here‘s 420MPPs, little Hans

Post by Erse »

But don‘t forget, this turn you have to:

Research tanks - 175MPPs
Repair u-boats - 200MPPs
Upgrade infantry - 300MPPs
Repair infantry - 250MPPs
Operate/ship units - 100MPPs
Buy bombers, buy tanks, buy mechanized infantry, buy AA and that army that got destroyed a while back - 1500MPPS :shock:

Please, can anyone share some tips on how to budget effectively in this game? It always feels pretty overwhelming to me how much you have to do, how long it takes, and how few MPPs you have to do it.
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Platoonist
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Re: Here‘s 420MPPs, little Hans

Post by Platoonist »

Ahh. The wonder of plunder is how to not squander it. Always prioritize. If you can get away with forced marches, don't operate. If your next big campaign is still months away, try to buy the units that take the longest to build first. Keeping experienced units at strength should usually take precedence over building new novice ones. I've always seen diplomacy as a crapshoot, so I tend to spend the MPPs on stuff I know I'll actually get. When the game offers you white elephant DEs such as aircraft carriers, reject them. Try to alternate turns between buying stuff and researching stuff. Regrettably, your pile of loot* will never be big enough to spend on everything you want so you have to plan ahead and ruthlessly rank and give precedence to what is urgently needed next.

* Russian plunder comes pretty darn close.
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Umeu
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Re: Here‘s 420MPPs, little Hans

Post by Umeu »

Platoonist already explained the basic gist of it so should follow his advice.

Some more things to consider to help manage resources are:

Initiative: the alliance that has it, either in the war or at a particular front gets to largely decide how many resources need to be directed into defending it. If you have initiative you may want to lay low on a particular front to free up resources for an offensive elsewhere. Or you may want to keep pressure on a front to prevent your opponent from doing that.

Campaign seasons: generally this means summer is for fighting and winter is not (sadly the game doesn’t replicate Russia’s success with winter offensives well). So during the campaign, you want to prioritize repairing units over building new ones, unless they are reformed units that were destroyed in supply earlier. And then you generally only want to make them if they return to the line before campaign season ends. In off season, it’s the other way around. You want to prioritize tech and units that take longer to build. And you want to make new units over reforming or repairing anything that doesn’t immediately jeopardizes your line stability.

Grand campaign cycles: this is somewhat derivative of the previous point. It’s basically on or off season on a grander scale. For US for example, until Pearl Harbor, you can consider them off season, and so priority should be on techs that serve your strategy, though imo, this should always include rushing all economic techs first because you want to have as many resources when the on cycle begins. Same for Russi, but their cycle ends sooner. UK’s cycle goes on in 1940, but there tends to be a slight lull between fall of France and Barbarossa, though there are exceptions and it depends on strategy of both sides. It’s similar for Germany.
But it’s also about planning ahead for major offensives, such as Barbarossa, but also less defined ones which will depend on your strategy and flow of the game, and making sure you plan ahead to ensure you know what kind of units you will need combat ready for the offensive (or defense against it) to succeed, and thus how much in advance you need to invest in certain techs or units to make sure this offensive can even take off, let alone succeed.
Chernobyl
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Re: Here‘s 420MPPs, little Hans

Post by Chernobyl »

Huge topic.
In general if I am low on money the priority is repairs+upgrades > tech/buybacks > buying new units and diplomacy.
It doesn't seem overwhelming to me. It's one of the fun parts of the game!

As Umeu mentioned, you get purchased units faster in winter because more months go by for fewer turns. For me personally, I do consider this effect, but it doesn't affect my purchase decisions too much in practice because the major factor is just whether I can spare the MPP or not.

Strategic MPP considerations:
-MPP now is worth far more than MPP later.
-Ensuring your majors have "enough" MPP is more important than maxing total MPP for your whole alliance
-Strangling one enemy major that you can conquer is more effective than doing equal economic damage to several enemies, or strangling an enemy major that you can't conquer.

TECH:
-Research now is worth more than research later (unless it doesn't help you).
-If you can you should usually double-chit a tech you are researching.
-Double-chittable techs are preferable to single-chit techs all else being equal.
-You need to start certain single-chit techs as soon as possible if you want to have higher levels later.
-There is no order of techs that applies to all majors. Each one is different.
-Sometimes it is optimal to double-chit a tech even when there is only one level left.
-I think players tend to slightly underrate Industry, C+C, and LRA tech.
-I think Mobility tech is great for Japan (get it before your units spawn).
-I think players tend to slightly overrate Artillery tech.
-I think players tend to slightly underrate tech in general.
Umeu
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Re: Here‘s 420MPPs, little Hans

Post by Umeu »

Chernobyl wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:01 am Huge topic.
In general if I am low on money the priority is repairs+upgrades > tech/buybacks > buying new units and diplomacy.
It doesn't seem overwhelming to me. It's one of the fun parts of the game!

As Umeu mentioned, you get purchased units faster in winter because more months go by for fewer turns. For me personally, I do consider this effect, but it doesn't affect my purchase decisions too much in practice because the major factor is just whether I can spare the MPP or not.

Strategic MPP considerations:
-MPP now is worth far more than MPP later.
-Ensuring your majors have "enough" MPP is more important than maxing total MPP for your whole alliance
-Strangling one enemy major that you can conquer is more effective than doing equal economic damage to several enemies, or strangling an enemy major that you can't conquer.

TECH:
-Research now is worth more than research later (unless it doesn't help you).
-If you can you should usually double-chit a tech you are researching.
-Double-chittable techs are preferable to single-chit techs all else being equal.
-You need to start certain single-chit techs as soon as possible if you want to have higher levels later.
-There is no order of techs that applies to all majors. Each one is different.
-Sometimes it is optimal to double-chit a tech even when there is only one level left.
-I think players tend to slightly underrate Industry, C+C, and LRA tech.
-I think Mobility tech is great for Japan (get it before your units spawn).
-I think players tend to slightly overrate Artillery tech.
-I think players tend to slightly underrate tech in general.
I am not sure it works that way with winter, I always considered 1 month just the equivalent of 2 turns, counting both your and enemy turns. The main reason is that usually less damage is done in winter and some fronts like Russia almost completely grind to a halt. And then it’s the principle of longer build time unit first.

The point you make about double chitting a tech even if you need 1 more or the last level is great. Especially for industrial techs on great industrial powers this is true. The extra investment is recouped at 50% at the end, and it generally speeds up the research by several turns, so you min max a few 100 mpps on that probably.

I don’t know if artillery tech can be overrated, but artillery in general imo is broken in this game. Taifun will demonstrate this in our aar, and I will write something about it at the end of our game. But imo, especially for axis, it is overpowered.

Good point about mobility for Japanese spawns. I guess if you can save the mpp it’s great. I might try it out. Though overall, I don’t think it matters that much vs a good allied player since those SNLF units will not move much into open terrain in the pacific. And the initial army tasked with China is more than capable of destroying china without mobility. I can see it help in India/Burma though.

I used to underrate tech at the start for sure, now I can see how important it is, but you need to get only the ones that fit your strategy. It can easily be wasted or overrated.
Chernobyl
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Re: Here‘s 420MPPs, little Hans

Post by Chernobyl »

I could be wrong about artillery but in general I feel that while it isn't weak, it's inferior to just going for level 2 or 3 bombers. Artillery doesn't work well with a fast moving front and in a dense front it takes up space and gets in the way. It's not the same power level as in the SC-WW1 game that's for sure. Bombers just have so much more range.

I haven't found myself in a situation where I feel I can spare the MPP for both Ground Attack Weapons and Artillery Weapons.
Umeu
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:58 am

Re: Here‘s 420MPPs, little Hans

Post by Umeu »

Chernobyl wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:56 am I could be wrong about artillery but in general I feel that while it isn't weak, it's inferior to just going for level 2 or 3 bombers. Artillery doesn't work well with a fast moving front and in a dense front it takes up space and gets in the way. It's not the same power level as in the SC-WW1 game that's for sure. Bombers just have so much more range.

I haven't found myself in a situation where I feel I can spare the MPP for both Ground Attack Weapons and Artillery Weapons.
True, but bombers can be countered quite efficiently by AA, though I guess AA got nerfed, so maybe things have changed a bit now. Bombers can also attack only once per turn, while artillery can do up to 3. Medium bombers deentrench one lvl per attack with conditions, vs upgraded artillery 2 lvls unconditionally. Once artillery gets experience, they also start doing kills, and that’s when things get nasty and overpowered. But yes, their lack of mobility and range is the only reason they aren’t completely gamebreaking.

As for tech, Germany and UK/US start with this tech for free being researched so it’s easy for them to get both, especially Germany.

But if I were to make a statement like that, I’d say most players overrate bombers. I actually tend not to even get higher lvl upgrades with them anymore as Germany. I value them most for the demoralizing, and this doesn’t require upgrades. Imo you’re better off saving those mpp on tech for buying another medium bomber that can do an additional 50% morale damage
Erse
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:11 am

Re: Here‘s 420MPPs, little Hans

Post by Erse »

Thanks for so much input! To try and summarize one more time:

Tactical planning:
(1) If I'm engaged in heavy fighting, keeping my frontline units' strength up should be priority. The same goes for upgrading them.

Strategic planning:
(2) Research would be the next priority (with exceptions). Focus on the most important techs I need for a nation, double chit if possible.
(3) Keep the timetable in mind! Buy new units in winter or so they're ready at the right time, i.e. the main fighting season, or for a planned attack. Also, since units are generally ready much sooner than research, a new unit at the right time can take precedence.

In general, I gotta try to maximize MPPs and be ruthless in prioritizing where they go.
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