Tech luck

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

What is the point?

When I play Russia, opponents have Russian Infantry +2.

It's February 1941, Infantry +1, with 11% for last level.
I invested on turn #1 of the game.

Going get mowed over. This is stupid.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Here we go again, not like Italy matters as much.

Turn #1, I sell the worthless Italian tech luck, start with Infantry.
Immediately, after obtaining level #1, invest in Infantry again.

It's April 1941, with 11%.

This is Italy, not Russia, so this game isn't a throw away. But come on. I've played hundreds of games. I yet to enter Russia a "real opponent" with garbage Tech.

[Bavre]

What is the point?

When I play Russia, opponents have Russian Infantry +2.

It's February 1941, Infantry +1, with 11% for last level.
I invested on turn #1 of the game.

Going get mowed over. This is stupid.

(Assuming this is our game)

Your research progress seems perfectly normal and your Russians did in fact better than any of my infantry weapons research. Germans got 2 in Feb 41, Japs are still at 1, Italians at 0. Sometime you just don't get that damned breakthrough.

Also how is Russian Infantry +2 for (early) Barby even possible? That would require 4-5 breakthroughs minimum.

[petedalby]

I don't think I've ever got Russian Inf 2 by Barby?

[Ktonos]

Russia Inf 2 by Barbarossa is a significant breakthrough for the Allies. Usually under normal circumstances, on Barb, Germany just completed its Inf-2, and Russia is close to complete it and it comes about the time of Russian winter. Ofc that differs from game to game.
And lets not forget the S&I levels. If the allied opponent went for it with several nations, it will play a role.

[Chernobyl]

I do kind of feel like techs should be a bit more predictable, especially the critical techs that only get one chit at a time, such as that Infantry Weapons tech for USSR. Breakthroughs can be annoying. In theory you are likely to get just as many as your opponent in the long run, but it's quite likely that within a particular game your breakthroughs will come for techs that are less critical than theirs, or you will get a breakthrough when you are already at 95+% thus "wasting" a large chunk of the breakthrough.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

It's nearly 1943.
Started on turn #1 with Italy, Infantry.
It's going backwards, like Benjamin Button.
Look, sold everything, so I could do Infantry + AA.
AA is at +3. (well, you can do 2-chits, okay).

Now, pretend you're Russia.

[Bavre]

I do kind of feel like techs should be a bit more predictable, especially the critical techs that only get one chit at a time, such as that Infantry Weapons tech for USSR. Breakthroughs can be annoying. In theory you are likely to get just as many as your opponent in the long run, but it's quite likely that within a particular game your breakthroughs will come for techs that are less critical than theirs, or you will get a breakthrough when you are already at 95+% thus "wasting" a large chunk of the breakthrough.

Both getting a similar amount of breakthroughs, but only one is side getting the crucial ones admittedly has a huge effect. At least in the game with Elvis as Allies and me as Axis, that was not the case. Had no luck with the one chit techs either, but Germany got really good industry progress and Japs had air range 4 in autumn 41, so I guess I can't complain.

[Elessar2]

Understand in previous game engine builds tech was MUCH more random:

In the previous engine from 10-20 years ago the chits would give you the % chance of an INSTANT breakthough-otherwise nothing happened to the tech in question until the dice finally got you the next level. People (like me) constantly complained as some players would get quickie breakthroughs in key techs while others waited forever.

Next engine used small random variations in turn-by-turn chit advances like we have now, but instant breakthroughs could still be rolled, same problem remained.

At some point breakthroughs only got you the current 15-25% bump, but then the 40% minimum requirement for a bump got rescinded somewhere along the line as well. I'd prefer to bring back the 40% minimum myself, at least as an editor option. [Yes, moving a lot of these options out of the hard code and into the editor would certainly be welcomed.]

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

"It Happens" --- Forrest Gump, in the classic Forrest Gump.
"Only if my luck was better" --- any loser in a casino.
Ask specific different people inside a certain Sunday morning building, "there's no such thing as luck"
"He had no code, no honor, and God was watching" --- Lt. Kendrick, in the classic Few Good Men

[archmache]

"It Happens" --- Forrest Gump, in the classic Forrest Gump.
"Only if my luck was better" --- any loser in a casino.
Ask specific different people inside a certain Sunday morning building, "there's no such thing as luck"
"He had no code, no honor, and God was watching" --- Lt. Kendrick, in the classic Few Good Men

Did you invest in Spying and Intel as USSR? Germans normally got for intel as well and since ussr does NOT share with Allie’s your research will be -1% and -2% if Germany gets intel. Secondly spying increases breakthrough % of HAPPENING so you can get those bumps. I always get lvl2 IW as soviets by Jan 1 1942 at latest

[Bavre]

Did you invest in Spying and Intel as USSR? Germans normally got for intel as well and since ussr does NOT share with Allie’s your research will be -1% and -2% if Germany gets intel. Secondly spying increases breakthrough % of HAPPENING so you can get those bumps. I always get lvl2 IW as soviets by Jan 1 1942 at latest

Hmm, iirc S&I only negates potential enemy bonuses, but does not bestow a penalty. Did that change?

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Nope, have not done Spying & Intel with the Reds.

[Duedman]

S&I does not penalize.
There isa thread in WiE forums where S&I is thouroughly described (including input from the devs).

On topic:
I do dislike the randomness of breakthroughs as well. Its not just russia. If Axis goes for NA and one side had 2 fighter breakthroughs while the other did not then the game suddenly is very imbalanced.
Or 2x S&I for any nations vs zero. Suddenly all their techs go faster.
Or 3(!) GB tank breakthroughs leading to level 1 tanks in France (got that on YT iirc).
This stuff should be limited. At least in MP