What do you think about subs cruising with no supply cost change?

[OxfordGuy3]

What do you think about the change in one of the recent game patches that allows submarines to cruise without using any supplies? I'm not exactly sure when this change happened, as had a break from the game and only started playing again recently.

Personally I hink it's too powerful and unrealistic. Submarines consuming 0.5 supplies for a cruise would have been a sufficient buff IMHO - I assume fractional supply costs are possible as CV strikes cost 0.5 supply per strike, I think.

[CaesarAug]

That was changed "indirectly" when a long discussion arose in these forums regarding the constant attacks against subs, whereby sub-diving did not provide sufficient defence. While true that sub diving inherently does not consume supply (in these cases not affecting normal supply consumption when "naval cruising") it was felt that the constant attacks on a sub trying to escape (without diving) meant an unfair supply drain, hence low sub durability at sea, and hence the change so that subs no longer consume supply when defending from attacks, regardless of diving.

And a player can likewise give subs a retreat possibility like other surface ships in the editor.

Another change in the game engine increased the theoretical maximum sub diving from the previous 2-hexes to 4-hexes.

But the changes introduced in the patches come with perhaps the undesirable non-consumption of supply when subs "naval cruise."

However, this change can be reverted very easily by the player in the game editor under Campaign / Edit Combat Data, select Sub on the left column, and in the right column revert the 0 under the "Naval Supply Consumption From Combat (Defender)" to 1 for subs. As far as I know, this adjustment are whole numbers only, no 0.5 fractions.

[OxfordGuy3]

That was changed "indirectly" when a long discussion arose in these forums regarding the constant attacks against subs, whereby sub-diving did not provide sufficient defence. While true that sub diving inherently does not consume supply (in these cases not affecting normal supply consumption when "naval cruising") it was felt that the constant attacks on a sub trying to escape (without diving) meant an unfair supply drain, hence low sub durability at sea, and hence the change so that subs no longer consume supply when defending from attacks, regardless of diving.

And a player can likewise give subs a retreat possibility like other surface ships in the editor.

Another change in the game engine increased the theoretical maximum sub diving from the previous 2-hexes to 4-hexes.

But the changes introduced in the patches come with perhaps the undesirable non-consumption of supply when subs "naval cruise."

However, this change can be reverted very easily by the player in the game editor under Campaign / Edit Combat Data, select Sub on the left column, and in the right column revert the 0 under the "Naval Supply Consumption From Combat (Defender)" to 1 for subs. As far as I know, this adjustment are whole numbers only, no 0.5 fractions.

So are you saying that the changes made for subs not losing supply when attacked (which I generally agree with, makes them much harder to sink, especially combined with the longer retreat range) are totally linked with them not losing supply when cruising (which I disagree with)? is there no way to have the former without the latter? Seems odd if there are not separate settings for each,

[Taxman66]

Iirc, it was a 'bug' that creeped in from the latest patch. I would expect it to be removed with theie next one.

[CaesarAug]

That was changed "indirectly" when a long discussion arose in these forums regarding the constant attacks against subs, whereby sub-diving did not provide sufficient defence. While true that sub diving inherently does not consume supply (in these cases not affecting normal supply consumption when "naval cruising") it was felt that the constant attacks on a sub trying to escape (without diving) meant an unfair supply drain, hence low sub durability at sea, and hence the change so that subs no longer consume supply when defending from attacks, regardless of diving.

And a player can likewise give subs a retreat possibility like other surface ships in the editor.

Another change in the game engine increased the theoretical maximum sub diving from the previous 2-hexes to 4-hexes.

But the changes introduced in the patches come with perhaps the undesirable non-consumption of supply when subs "naval cruise."

However, this change can be reverted very easily by the player in the game editor under Campaign / Edit Combat Data, select Sub on the left column, and in the right column revert the 0 under the "Naval Supply Consumption From Combat (Defender)" to 1 for subs. As far as I know, this adjustment are whole numbers only, no 0.5 fractions.

So are you saying that the changes made for subs not losing supply when attacked (which I generally agree with, makes them much harder to sink, especially combined with the longer retreat range) are totally linked with them not losing supply when cruising (which I disagree with)? is there no way to have the former without the latter? Seems odd if there are not separate settings for each,

Correct, there does not seem to be any way, at least at present. One thing just to be clear: though similar, "retreating" is not "diving", these are two distinct mechanisms, thus both of these are moddable separately.

[OxfordGuy3]

Iirc, it was a 'bug' that creeped in from the latest patch. I would expect it to be removed with theie next one.

Hope so!

[Platoonist]

Submarines cruise without burning any supply in SC World War One and in the recent SC War in the Pacific game. Seems more like a feature than a bug at this point.

[OxfordGuy3]

If it's intended, I still think it's a bad idea - at best subs should use up 0.5 supplies for cruising.

[Platoonist]

Going by this passage in the SC: WitP manual it kinda looks like it's been set down as a standard feature going forward.

Sub-cruise-mode.jpg (18.35 KiB) Viewed 463 times

[Elessar2]

The issue is that subs have a LONG way to sail to get to and from their patrol areas (something even more acute in the Pacific), while escorts can dive into the nearest port and come back out the next turn with 10-12 supply, and resume hunting the hunters.

[OxfordGuy3]

Sure, but reducing cruising supply usage for subs to only 0.5 each time would probably be a big enough change.