Terrain Bonus no longer stacking with Resource Bonus

[Lothos]

Not sure when this happened or with what patch but it appears Resource Bonuses are no longer stacking wtih terrain bonuses.

I have attached two screenshots, one with a unit in a normal forest hex and one with a unit in a forest hex with a resource.

You can see the one with the resource is not getting the terrain bonuses for the forest. This was working at some point as Bill helped me come up with this design so that these bonuses stacked.

EDITED: To make things clearer I added two screenshots from the Editor on the two different sections

[Hubert Cater]

As far as I know this has been for quite some time this way, e.g. that resource and terrain bonuses do not stack. It is one or the other as otherwise it was too much of a bonus... and by some time, I believe years now.

[Lothos]

As far as I know this has been for quite some time this way, e.g. that resource and terrain bonuses do not stack. It is one or the other as otherwise it was too much of a bonus... and by some time, I believe years now.

Correct, it did not stack if it was coming from the "Terrain/Resource Defense Bonuses" screen. That has always been the case.

But the way around that was to provide bonuses by using the "Set Combat/Movement Penalties/Bonuses" for each individual unit for the terrain it was in.

I provided the two screenshots from both sections; in that case they were stacking before but are no longer stacking.

"Set Combat/Movement Penalties/Bonuses" is provided bonuses in forest specifically for Infantry Corp

"Terrain/Resource Defense Bonuses" this is a blank bonus/penalty that covers all unit types

[Hubert Cater]

Yeah it looks like things were cleaned up quite a while ago, e.g. well over a year ago, not sure when that would have been released in a patch, but likely well before the last patch.

This was just to make it consistent with the no stacking of bonuses between terrain and resources in other parts of the code.

[Lothos]

Yeah it looks like things were cleaned up quite a while ago, e.g. well over a year ago, not sure when that would have been released in a patch, but likely well before the last patch.

This was just to make it consistent with the no stacking of bonuses between terrain and resources in other parts of the code.

Not happy about that!

This was a major change (as far as I can tell) had no effect on the scenarios that are put out officially. Only mods were using the combination. Why change that and break the mods? Sorry I am just confused on why this was done as it really hurts and now explains some of the weird things I been seeing in France and Russia.

[Hubert Cater]

The typical answer in these cases is it was reported as an issue and corrected, a note was made for the v1.25.00 WiE release:

- Penalties/Bonuses will now check resources before terrain if a unit is on a terrain and resource hex (OxfordGuy3).

[Lothos]

The typical answer in these cases is it was reported as an issue and corrected, a note was made for the v1.25.00 WiE release:

- Penalties/Bonuses will now check resources before terrain if a unit is on a terrain and resource hex (OxfordGuy3).

I understand, however IMO it was not a bug.

Now it's no longer possible for a mountain hex with a mine resource to provide a bonus. A mine in the mountains is treated the same as a mine in a clear hex.

Which really should not be the case.

The only way around that issue was the way I was doing it which is now being blocked.

[Hubert Cater]

Correct, and this is purposeful, and I believe goes back to SC2 days when we first introduced the Pacific and Global campaigns and specifically with the fighting in China.

What we have are values that make sense for when a unit is on a resource, and a second set of values for when a unit is on terrain, but when combined the stacking of the values was seen to be too much, so we opted for just one or the other, e.g. whichever one is the primary, and in the case of units in let's say a city, the primary defensive bonuses would be logically the city, and not the terrain it was on.

Then there was that outstanding bug related to that, which was corrected over a year ago.

Outside of that maybe a separate set of smaller bonuses for terrain could be considered, e.g. for when a unit is on a resource, but we'd need a whole other data set for this, and it's just unfortunately not a priority for us right now.

Hope you can understand,
Hubert

[Lothos]

Correct, and this is purposeful, and I believe goes back to SC2 days when we first introduced the Pacific and Global campaigns and specifically with the fighting in China.

What we have are values that make sense for when a unit is on a resource, and a second set of values for when a unit is on terrain, but when combined the stacking of the values was seen to be too much, so we opted for just one or the other, e.g. whichever one is the primary, and in the case of units in let's say a city, the primary defensive bonuses would be logically the city, and not the terrain it was on.

Then there was that outstanding bug related to that, which was corrected over a year ago.

Outside of that maybe a separate set of smaller bonuses for terrain could be considered, e.g. for when a unit is on a resource, but we'd need a whole other data set for this, and it's just unfortunately not a priority for us right now.

Hope you can understand,
Hubert

Places like Leningrad, Rostov, and several cities/resources in the Baklans this change does not make sense at all.

This change really hurts Leningrad and Rostov in particular. Both areas are in swamps, but the swamp bonuses are being blocked with just regular city bonuses which is one of the reasons why the cities are so easy to take.

Basically, taking those cities is the same as taking Warsaw (which is a clear plain hex)

[Hubert Cater]

Correct, and as mentioned, it is purposeful with how we want the default game to play simply due to finding it didn't work out as we had hoped when it was the other way around.

[Hubert Cater]

Just wanted to add, for places like Leningrad, if you use rivers and swamps around the city, it does make the attacks on the city that much more difficult, e.g. attacks across a river help the defender, and an attack from a marsh is halved, so long as there is a -negative defence bonus value associated with the marsh.

This is true for any terrain type, e.g. if it has a -negative defence bonus value associated with it, all attacks from it are halved. It is not a well documented feature, but it is there for use in game.