Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

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Elessar2
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Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Elessar2 »

Starting a new thread, but mucho props to the original designer SIPRES who allowed me to take over his project and original thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=311237

Composite map of the Old World, terrain only:

Image

Since I am getting fairly close to an alpha candidate, I figured it would be a good time to start my own thread. So for the moment just some background:

I decided to take over in late June 2020. I spent the first year working solely on the coastlines. Then I decided to complete another map (War in the Pacific) that someone else had also started, and that took up about 18 months all told. I then switched back to this 16 months ago, and have been slaving away on it ever since.

At the time I had NO IDEA just what I was getting myself into. If I had known...yeah I likely would have still done it. By turns it has proven to be exhilarating, frustrating, and everything in between. Looking back the amount of work necessary was indeed as massive as the screenie above indicates. It involved rapid bursts of activity followed typically by me hitting upon a major issue, having to find a remedy, and getting back on track. I had to take frequent breaks both on an hourly as well as a daily basis or it simply would have overwhelmed me. I can see why there have been so few scratch maps made for the SC system.

Anyway, as my new title indicates, my inspiration derives mainly from one of Sid Meier's first games (predating even the Civilization series), Crusade in Europe (as well as its partner title Decision in the Desert). My first custom scenario was also for this title, an alternate history one where Hitler didn't try the abortive and disastrous Operation Lüttich and instead retreated his forces to behind the Seine.

That game had a divisional scale, as will mine, 20 kilometer hexes/12 miles (in practice to make everything fit I had to tweak it to 19 km essentially, which is almost exactly 12 miles). Battleships and other heavies will have a 1:1 ratio of counter:ship, as will both kinds of carriers; heavy cruisers 1:2, light cruisers 1:3 (which will minimize high seas clutter), and all smaller ships 1:8 to 1:10.

When I first got into SC close to 20 years ago with the first game engine, while I found it to be highly enjoyable, I also found that the scale proved to be rather frustrating. Combined with the no-stacking design decision, this often led IMHO to ahistorical play esp. in terms of manuever and encirclements. Fast-forward to today, and now the optimum operational manuever is ye olde "Fire and Fall-Back" two-step, where the hard-hitting tank and mech units expend their 2 attacks against the enemy front lines, then retreat back behind a wall of relatively expendable and cheap infantry.

So my most radical departure from the SC modus operandi is intended to obviate all of that:

* The scale should provide everyone with LOTS more room to manuever.

* Tank, mech, and other mobile units will now get 10-14 movement points, vs. the 5-7 they get in the default scenarios.

* Buyback costs and times have been significantly reduced. On the offensive end, this will favor players being more aggressive with their mobile but costly and irreplaceable elites; on the defensive end killing units in high supply [5+] will result in them coming back quicker and cheaper, whereas destroying them while in low supply will necessitate the full cost and time delay. My goal is to pretty much require players to kill the majority of enemy units in low supply to force full buybacks by the enemy.

* My city density criteria is intended to eliminate what I call "supply deserts" in the default maps. As it is now in the Euro map, there is often little to be gained for anyone, on either side, to garrison empty areas with not a single town or even settlement to be had, since progress in any campaign depends on capturing population centers to improve supply for followup offensives.

If you look at the default Europe map for example, there is a huge 80 hex void south of Moscow bounded by said capital and the towns of Tula, Ryazan, Tambov, Borisoglebsk, Voronezh, Kursk, and Orel. Nobody bothers to garrison any hexes in this area since (aside from the forests) there is little defensive terrain (just one river) and nothing worth defending. Any units you place there will likely be in poor supply without an HQ or two. Any serious attempt to "cross the void" to take the towns on the other side will require a feeder HQ along with the spearhead HQ, but risk petering out their supply if the latter gets more than 8 hexes from its buddy.

My design by contrast provides liberal quantities of Settlements (the smallest pop. center and thus the one with the lowest defensive value). Since even Settlements provide the same base supply values (for invaders) of even the biggest city, the player on the defensive cannot simply fall back on the relatively few p.c.'s and garrison them in depth with little to fear from being encircled.

This should thus favor aggressive play, paving the way for bold deep penetrations as well as effective counterattacks.

* In a recent YT match I discovered that medium and heavy tanks only have a retreat range of 1. If they get "trapped" in front of a wall of friendly units, they thus cannot "leapfrog" behind the wall to safety. They will then tend to just "bounce" around in front of the wall until destroyed. Thus players are very reluctant, given the often thick unit density in areas strongly contested by both sides (necessitated by the map scale) to place their strongest offensive units in situations where they can be attacked without a safe retreat path. I plan to give mobile units a retreat range of 3 (all others 2) which, given the less-crowded map, should allow them if attacked to retreat out of danger and not necessarily risk destruction before their pocket can be ground down.

* Not to worry I've strived to counterbalance things on the defensive end. Rivers will now get a very robust increase in defensive bonuses. Scorched Earth will range down to 0% (taking a town or city will drop its supply all the way down to zero). Tanks will get penalties in both movement and combat capability if in hills or mountains. [and I have a LOT more of those than the vanilla maps do]

There are quite a few other changes I am making under the hood (which I will get to not to worry), but the above are the most crucial if you wish to succeed in land campaigns in this scenario.

~~~~~~~~~

I intend to attempt to port this over to the W@W engine (since it and WIE are virtually identical in terms of design principles, terrain, and scripting capabilities). I do intend to at least get an Allied AI up and running at some point later this year.

As for the other game engines, the entire scenario can be ported over to any one of them, tho they will likely require some work to get them functional. For the foreseeable future I reserve the right to work on any WW2 versions, but for other eras I am open to allowing someone to port the basic map data over, BUT require a fairly substantial writeup, including design goals and particulars as well as the years, major powers, and campaigns to be modeled.

Right now I HOPE to get a working alpha up by the end of the month-the main delay now is copying and modifying all the default scripts (thankfully Crispy the designer of the Fall Weiss scenarios has given carte blanche for other designers to use his scripts). I unfortunately have some private business to attend to in the middle of April, but when that is all taken care of I intend to hire a number of volunteers to help playtest it in a private setting (most likely Discord if I am satisfied with its capabilities). This first phase is mainly intended to ensure a reasonable play balance is attained and any major bugs or faulty design decisions are squashed/remedied, so once that is done I'll release my first beta for public consumption.

If you wish to volunteer please bear with me-I will make an official call for you all at some date within the next month or so. Peace out. 8-)
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Lothos
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Lothos »

I loved Crusade in Europe. I think I spent half my teenage life playing that game LOL!

I guess with these super large maps if you did battle scenarios like in Crusade in Europe it should work.

Good luck :)
Zeckke
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Zeckke »

Best game ever <<<<<<<<<<the AVALON HILL COMPANY operation crusader Division of< monarch Avalon.inc

WORLD at war

Baltimore MD 21214-9989

4517 Harford Road

an incredible map
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Elessar2
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Elessar2 »

Update Time

Image

Image

Image

For the moment decided on c. 75% of the divisional totals that actually existed in the theatre at the time-this is subject to tweakage depending on whether gameplay is either bogged down or made too easy by too many gaps between units.

Decided on a base movement of 12 for motorized units; however, all tanks can implement the Mechanization tech, as can German and Russian Mech Infantry-the latter will get combat bonuses if they do thanks to the attached assault guns they had. But for the other countries they got unupgradeable Motorized Infantry so that they can utilize the Anti-Tank tech.

HQs, A-A, Anti-Tank, and Rocket and Heavy Artillery can all use that tech as well, giving +6 movement (to 10) for a pretty price.

The screenies in and around Poland have some of the Elite and upgraded artillery/HQs so you can see their new counters, not all of which will be available at start.

I have overhauled ship repair costs because except for capital ships each counter can represent 2 or more vessels. As such repair costs are progressive since sufficient damage means actual hull losses, making replacements more expensive. The smallest ships [DDs and subs] are now cheaper however:

BB/FB/BC/CV 1:1 20%
CA/CVE 1:2 40%
CL 1:3 60%
DD/SS/DE 1:8 80%

[I got the devs to allow us modders to alter these percentages a few years back. 8-) )

The German old BB slot is now occupied by their Panzerschiffes; I figured it was a waste to use said slot on their old predreadnoughts when their "pocket" battleships were much more crucial to the war effort. The Kriegsmarine and Russian Navy still use the MTB slot for yes Motor Torpedo Boats, but most everyone else uses it for Destroyer Escorts (corvettes, old fashioned torpedo boats, and frigates).

I also have a turn 1 DE for the Germans to allow them to implement their Plan Z shipbuilding plan in lieu of Heer/Luftwaffe/sub builds.

Tech for the moment uses my WitP 2-3 chit system, costs for the various techs on a 180/160/140/120/100 scale so you can't easily divine what your opponent bought based on the Tech Investment Graph.

As you can see in the screenie of Southern France I have added numerous convoy routes for your raiding pleasure; the only colonies which don't have any are small ones like Rhodes or integral ones such as Spanish Morocco. The UK's income is now significantly skewed from native income to convoy income, making it doubly vital that they keep the u-boats at bay.

There will be very few if any "freebie" events here, such as the auto invasions of Norway or Denmark, various silly bombing scripts, and the dreaded Malta (and Crete) supply effect. There is now a 2nd hex for the 2nd Maltese island for the British player to park a bomber if he wishes and the Axis air forces are occupied elsewhere, so he can bomb the various North African ports.

Depending on how real-life priorities shake out I may start calling for playtesters by late April.

We're almost there! :P
slaytanic
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by slaytanic »

This looks epicly awesome! Division frontage in ww2 was 10 km on average, but I'm still hoping for a full 1:1 division scale if all goes well, as reserves and second lines are necessary. And since some larger cities had multiple divisions in them during sieges, maybe have a few larger units (corps, armies?) for these situations. Would love to playtest this beast, congrats on this mega work.
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Unfortunate Son
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Unfortunate Son »

This project should be code named: GODZILLA!!! 😉 🦎 🤫
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Platoonist
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Platoonist »

Unfortunate Son wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 7:47 pm This project should be code named: GODZILLA!!! 😉 🦎 🤫
Given the mammoth scale I'm leaning more towards Cthulhu in Europe myself. Elessar is well on his way to creating a gigantic entity worshipped by cultists. Namely us. :)

Cthulhu in Europe.jpg
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Hellfirejet
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Hellfirejet »

I'm so happy for Elessar2 to see all his hard work so near to completion, a mammoth mod of this size and complexity, takes Months of hard work and dedication. So it's a big thank you from me. I can't wait to give it a play through. :D
Make it so!
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Elessar2
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Elessar2 »

Me either--getting there. Most non DE/Unit scripts have now been converted over (some don't need hex conversions so are easy peasy). Every time I look at the bloody thing now it blows my mind...Cthulhu indeed...my baby, my creation, my masterpiece...
slaytanic wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:30 pm This looks epicly awesome! Division frontage in ww2 was 10 km on average, but I'm still hoping for a full 1:1 division scale if all goes well, as reserves and second lines are necessary. And since some larger cities had multiple divisions in them during sieges, maybe have a few larger units (corps, armies?) for these situations. Would love to playtest this beast, congrats on this mega work.
The issue with mixing units of different "levels" is that it quickly becomes a war of the Hunters and Targets, relegating divisions to 2nd-line status. I also am out of land unit slots in any event, and would find having just a few corps-sized units hanging around distracting. I wanted a more egilitarian playing field with each kind of divisional unit useful in certain situations, and not so useful in others (tanks for ex. have been given combat penalties in Hills and Mountains so they won't be king everywhere). There will be some extra defensive bonuses for cities to compensate, not to worry.
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Nami Koshino
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Nami Koshino »

This is quite an amazing and substantial endeavor Elessar. I hope it doesn't cut into your sleep time too often. :)
Rice is a great snack when you're hungry and you want 2,000 of something to eat.
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Elessar2
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Elessar2 »

Not really-I budget out a chunk of time in the evening and what I plan to work on, then ease off by 10:30 pm. Thanks for the interest! 8-)

I am remiss in not linking to Old Crow Balthazor's 1st video in his preview series:

https://youtu.be/gC6A2LQuX9I?si=6S3Xdi0NLRwRVctT

We are currently collaborating on Part II, should be out in a fortnight or so.
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OldCrowBalthazor
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

I will have a video soon covering a test play-through of Case White and the Invasion of Poland. Awesome sauce this baby is. 😎
Here's the next installment's thumbnail I will use..........
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Elessar2
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Elessar2 »

My man. 8-)
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Elessar2 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2024 12:47 am My man. 8-)
Video will be ready soon brother. Have a bit of editing and processing to do.
I told you why I threw up the thumbnail teaser so I might as well tell everyone else why:

It's just not promotion. Its a psychological tactic that I do to myself to get a project/operation done. ;)
Kind of like burning the boats so we can't go home, similar to what Cortez did at Veracruz in 1519.
So...there's no going back boys!

I told Elessar that I used to do this all the time to my 'supervisor' in the States when my crew was in Honduras tasked with getting different projects done.
This was back in the days before cell phones and communications were limited. So yeah, by long distant phone I would tell him, "Yep, project 'B' is done." (when in reality is was maybe half done).
No way could that be verified. So I burned the boats!

After I got off the phone, my partners would ask, "Why did you tell him that...again!?"
"Well, we gotta complete this thing now, don't we? haha"

Anyways, this Mod is fantastic! I'll post a link when it goes public on YouTube.
Cheers
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

I have a surprise on April 10, 2024 at 9am Pacific.
There will be a video that introduces a game-play test of the 'Crusade in Europe' Mod by Elessar, which is a continuation of his 20k Map Mod for Strategic Command War in Europe.
There are 3 chapters, a brief Introduction, an Overview, and finally some Game-play as Germany as it invades Poland.
This is still under development and comments on the video will be welcome!
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Elessar2
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Elessar2 »

Thank you OCB, you are the man!
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Here we go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMgPPp6AFVc&t=745s
side note: While editing out a phone ringing, I accidentally edited out the first 7 minutes of introduction including the splash screen and other important info including the decision for Plan Z. Luckily there's a process that takes a few hours on YT to reverse the edit.
Edit..the full video is restored now... 😌 Phew.
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Elessar2
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Elessar2 »

I will be calling for playtesters in c. 3-4 weeks note. 8-)
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roy64
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by roy64 »

WOW :o ! Amazing mod Elessar2 & great vid OCB.
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Beriand
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Re: Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

Post by Beriand »

Can't wait to move tanks around 8-) Though so many players will consider ending their lives because of high ship numbers, only the toughest shall prevail.
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