TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.10 Download)

[Klydon]

Jan 1 41 report.

General situation is a small German/Italian force just capture Morocco last turn and the air supporting them was sent back to Sicily to try to get ready for a beat down of Malta (if we can figure out how to do that as the ports are finally reduced to 0). A larger German/Italian force has entered Egypt and there isn't much stopping them from getting to the Nile and central Egypt except logistics. The Malta trigger hasn't been going off nearly as much and that might be due to the blockade of Malta, but I don't know for sure. Hungary and Romania have joined the Axis. (I took the option that Romania kept her territory, so the Hungarians and Bulgarians are not happy with me). Preparations continue for Barbarossa, but slowly and there is concern that the units committed to Africa may not be available for Barbarossa in which case, the Germans are going to be short on panzer corps and perhaps aircraft as well.

So lets talk research because it has been bad for the Germans. Of the techs selected at the start of the game, here are the following who are not completed yet and the percentage.

Advance tanks: 76
Advance subs: 85
Command and Control: 76
Spying and Intel: 81
Advance industry: 80

In addition, Germany just completed AT weapons on Nov 14, 1940.

The way things are running now, the Germans will not have advanced tanks or C&C done in time for Barbarossa.

Italy has all her techs that were selected at the start of the game done except advanced subs, which stands at 90.

Honestly, this is very frustrating, especially since it is in some key areas. Thank goodness I at least got advanced artillery to spice up the panzer corps attack ratings. If this is working as intended, I would still suggest a tweak. It doesn't need to be much faster, but some help on what you can learn at a minimum each turn would be helpful. I think the Allies have the majority of their initial tech done as well.

Overall, I like the mod. My playtime with it is going to be even more limited however since there are some games due to come out this next week that are going to grab my attention along with the new DLC for the Strategic Command Civil war game. I like it enough that I am sure I will return at some point.

[Lothos]

Wanted to post something about the AI after reading some peoples feedback

These are recommendations and house rules if you want a fun game against the AI

- If the AI has a bug (that you are aware), DO NOT USE IT AGAINST IT
- If you know the AI can't handle something, DO NOT DO IT
- if you know the AI won't defend something, DO NOT ATTACK IT
- Role play your country\side and do what they would have done historically and not what exploit you can do because of game mechanics
- Role play your country even more, example as Germany spend sometime doing Battle of Britain even if you have no intention of invading
- Another example Garrison France with a decent amount of troops even though you know the Allies wont invade till at least 1943 (at the earliest)

Within our lifetime their will never be an AI that will be as strategic as a human player is

My two cents for fun, which is one of the reasons why my games against the AI are a challenge.

[Klydon]

One question/observation for you.

I noted the Hungarian HQ is a rating 3 and there are no other options. The Rumanian has a 5 and I think there is a 4 available for purchase.

I believe the base game is a 5 for each country. (Or maybe they are a 4 depending on what the Germans have done for Command and Control).

I never understood why those leaders were that good in game terms because in the real thing, they were about as bad as it gets. It is bad enough as it is that all the Axis minor Allies are just as good as the German units although they don't have the production bonus applied to them, which makes them more expensive. The Finns were very good, no question. The same can not be said about the rest as a whole. They would perform better when the Germans would sprinkle Germans or German units together with them. This was not only done on the Eastern front, but Rommel also did this with the Italians in the desert on occasion.

I would suggest making the Romanian HQ's the same as the Hungarian as well.

If the German player wants to use those HQ's as a "better than nothing" option, they can. If they go to the added expense and trouble to get extra German HQ units to command the Axis minors, he can do that too, but that means fewer HQ's elsewhere and probably the lesser German HQ units involved (5 or 6 rating).

[Lothos]

One question/observation for you.

I noted the Hungarian HQ is a rating 3 and there are no other options. The Rumanian has a 5 and I think there is a 4 available for purchase.

I believe the base game is a 5 for each country. (Or maybe they are a 4 depending on what the Germans have done for Command and Control).

I never understood why those leaders were that good in game terms because in the real thing, they were about as bad as it gets. It is bad enough as it is that all the Axis minor Allies are just as good as the German units although they don't have the production bonus applied to them, which makes them more expensive. The Finns were very good, no question. The same can not be said about the rest as a whole. They would perform better when the Germans would sprinkle Germans or German units together with them. This was not only done on the Eastern front, but Rommel also did this with the Italians in the desert on occasion.

I would suggest making the Romanian HQ's the same as the Hungarian as well.

If the German player wants to use those HQ's as a "better than nothing" option, they can. If they go to the added expense and trouble to get extra German HQ units to command the Axis minors, he can do that too, but that means fewer HQ's elsewhere and probably the lesser German HQ units involved (5 or 6 rating).

All minors are sub standard to all major powers. Their stats are lower which is why they cost less.

I will review the HQs quality

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Here's a couple of home rules I'll insist on when we do a future MP grand campaign:

No Hungarians in Rumania. (Unless force retreated)
No Rumanians in Hungary. (Unless force retreated)
No Bulgarians in USSR unless Moscow taken.
No Finns south of latitude of Riga.

There will be more I am sure.

[Lothos]

Here's a couple of home rules I'll insist on when we do a future MP grand campaign:

No Hungarians in Rumania. (Unless force retreated)
No Rumanians in Hungary. (Unless force retreated)
No Bulgarians in USSR unless Moscow taken.
No Finns south of latitude of Riga.

There will be more I am sure.

Playing a game as the Allies right now, finding small bugs here and their and making a list.

Instead of releasing fast releases (one a week), since 1.02 is a pretty good release going to make a list and work on a bunch of stuff at once. Since TRP World is in Alpha that will still get faster updates so you will see whats coming to Europe from that version.

Right now you can say I been taking a break for the holidays. Doing allot of travel between now and end of January.

[Taxman66]

FYI,

Still need to have the National Morale bars turned off before Vichy/Free France events (at least as Allies).

Also saw the Vigo event (info pop-up) as the Allies.

Not sure if intended or not, but Norway went Axis awfully quickly (Jan or Feb 1940) when raiding the convoy line.

[Lothos]

FYI,

Still need to have the National Morale bars turned off before Vichy/Free France events (at least as Allies).

Also saw the Vigo event (info pop-up) as the Allies.

Not sure if intended or not, but Norway went Axis awfully quickly (Jan or Feb 1940) when raiding the convoy line.

National Bars is an EXE issue and not fixable by me. I believe they plan on fixing it with the next official patch.

Vigo event, yes that is cosmetic and have it already marked down for a future release

Norway, their are some random chance things that can happen. You just got unlucky.

[Elessar2]

Re: tech. As of the latest version (DLed last night), Lothos has it at 2% per chit. Turns/year is about 30. Thus 100/2 = 50 turns for a tech advance, which is 1 year 8 months, so your results Klydon are perfectly in accord with how the scenario is set up-you should get advances in those areas 20 months past Sept 1, 1939, which would be around May 1st...

Except that the above analysis doesn't take Breakthroughs into account. 2% per turn chance of one over 50 turns means you should expect one hit per tech per level (note this is true no matter what your chit % is: higher % means greater chance of one but also fewer turns for one to happen) . Tho alas some will get more than one, while others none at all. Looks like the Germans simply got unlucky.

Weirdly, vanilla WIE tho it has 17 turns per year has the same chit % as W@W does (5%), even tho W@W only has 13 turns. I adjust for the Breakthrough chance, which on average gives +15%, which note is on top of the normal advance that turn, by setting the target @ 85 not 100. So for TRP Euro that is 43 turns (85/2), still more than a year (17 months). WIE it is exactly one year, while W@W 15-16 months. Note I have always felt that WIE's tech progressions have happened too quickly.

I am also unsure about low chit %'s and how often rolling a zero on a given turn slows down advances (I'd posit that they are counterbalanced by high rolls, but I am not certain of that).

[Taxman66]

I know that the NM bars are not your responsibility, was just mentioning it because I think OCB was planning a new Youtube MP game soon.

Norway was a bit of a surprise, more annoying than anything. Mostly because I was not aware of the possibility.

Couple of other things:
1) I'm aware of what the map warning markings for the Adriatic and the Spanish Ports are for via following this thread. What are the ones on the USSR/Finnish border for?
1a) I suggest, if possible, to add some text somewhere explaining what the warnings are for, for those that don't follow the thread. Also is there a toggle to turn the visual display off for the warnings (Italy in particular looks kinda messy with them on)?

2) I believe TRP is not using the updated v1.25 sub rules. Is that intended?
Notably missing the following: a) Subs have a dive radius of 4; b) Subs don't lose supply when attacked; c) Cruisers/BB can not attack subs only defend against them.
Note: I'm not 100% sure about this and will follow up when I get a chance to confirm it.

[Lothos]

I know that the NM bars are not your responsibility, was just mentioning it because I think OCB was planning a new Youtube MP game soon.

Norway was a bit of a surprise, more annoying than anything. Mostly because I was not aware of the possibility.

Couple of other things:
1) I'm aware of what the map warning markings for the Adriatic and the Spanish Ports are for via following this thread. What are the ones on the USSR/Finnish border for?
1a) I suggest, if possible, to add some text somewhere explaining what the warnings are for, for those that don't follow the thread. Also is there a toggle to turn the visual display off for the warnings (Italy in particular looks kinda messy with them on)?

2) I believe TRP is not using the updated v1.25 sub rules. Is that intended?
Notably missing the following: a) Subs have a dive radius of 4; b) Subs don't lose supply when attacked; c) Cruisers/BB can not attack subs only defend against them.
Note: I'm not 100% sure about this and will follow up when I get a chance to confirm it.

I love it when someone uses numbers to ask their questions makes it easier to reply

1) To let the Russian player know they get free units along the border in those areas once war starts with Finland so they do not waste their time building garrison units for the area. An experience player with the mod knows this but someone new to the mod would not.

1a) Move the mouse of the ! it tells you what its for

2) That was an EXE change so all the changes are automatically in the mod. I do not believe the DIVE radios can be changed on my side and is in the EXE. As for item C I made this change intentional a very long time ago that Cruisers and BB had a very limited attack ability against subs for AI reasons. The AI will send ships out to hunt subs and does not know he is actually hunting subs and may send the wrong ships. So they have very limited abilities.

[Taxman66]

1a) Apparently I had it turned off (blue map-info button on interface). I had it off because the convoy line lists distract me.

2) I guess I understand, but I've seen cruiser abuse in MP play. I'm still not sure if subs are losing supply when being attacked. If you could make sure that at least was incorporated (or check that it is), it would help a lot.


Suggestion:
I noted earlier you are freezing Maritime Bomber Naval spotting range at 10.
How about instead one of the following:
NS1) Have it start at 8 and go up 1 per Long Range to a max of 13. It likely won't hit 10 until then end of 1941 at best and reach 11 at the end of '42, 12 at the end of '43, 13 at the end of '44 (all likely best case scenarios and will likely take longer).
NS2) Start at 9.5 and go up 0.5 per Long Range to a max of 12 (10 at LR 1, 11 at LR 3 and 12 at LR 5)
NS3) Start at 9 and go up 0.5 per Long Range to a max of 11 (10 at LR 2, and 11 LR 4)

[Lothos]

Just a comment

Playing a game as the allies and finding all sorts of small stuff. Just scratching my head that no one reported it.

Example, had no idea that USA was only sending 1 MPP to the UK all the way up till the entered the war (sorry it went up to 2 MPP just after USSR joined the war LOL).

[Taxman66]

Because the amount the US makes and the default settings for said trade.

I don't bother sending the UK any US money as the US needs it all to have any chance of not being hopelessly forever behind in Tech. Note that this is also partly due to the lack of being able to double chit techs. The US can't really take advantage of their superior Max Tech investment (2,750).

US money constraints start bitting harder once they start feeding the USSR via Vladivostok.

[Lothos]

Because the amount the US makes and the default settings for said trade.

I don't bother sending the UK any US money as the US needs it all to have any chance of not being hopelessly forever behind in Tech. Note that this is also partly due to the lack of being able to double chit techs. The US can't really take advantage of their superior Max Tech investment (2,750).

US money constraints start bitting harder once they start feeding the USSR via Vladivostok.

I am playing a game as the US right now and they are not hopelessly behind it tech.

In fact they are pretty much on par with everyone else and I been sending MPPs to the UK but I noticed its only 1 per turn all the way up till mid 1941. I need to make adjustments to this.

[Taxman66]

Which means basically you're having the US keep all her income.

It's also true that the US starts with a lot of free investment chits (as do most countries), they don't start feeling the Tech pinch until it is time to start investing for level 2s. By which time they can't keep up with the other at war countries (GE, UK in particular). USSR is in sorta the same boat but doesn't need to invest as broadly (i.e. in as many techs ) as the US does.

[Lothos]

Which means basically you're having the US keep all her income.

It's also true that the US starts with a lot of free investment chits (as do most countries), they don't start feeling the Tech pinch until it is time to start investing for level 2s. By which time they can't keep up with the other at war countries (GE, UK in particular). USSR is in sorta the same boat but doesn't need to invest as broadly (i.e. in as many techs ) as the US does.

I can keep up just fine, you are not suppose to spend your income for the USA on anything else other than research which tells me you are trying to buy a military which is why you are so short.

USSR as well is just fine!

I think the issue is the player and not the design, however I am going to make some drastic changes for the next release with USA sending resources to the UK, that convoy router needs to be way more important!

[Taxman66]

I'm only spending US money on research until summer '41, when I start repairing the existing units, and preping for Torch. I do ship mpp to USSR via Vlad when that becomes.es available. From previous version memory that takes a large chunk out of the US income.

I just disagree with your assessment.


Also of note, I confirmed that subs are losing supply when attacked.
Not accusing and am mostly just curious as to why the new air rules are active but not the sub rules (excluding the cruisers allowed to attack, which you already explained).

[dhucul2011]

Still loving this MOD.

Playing into 1942 as Axis on Veteran and some observations:

1. Axis sub tech VERY slow. I didn't hit tech 1 until end of 1941. Is that intended?
2. Maybe we can get a more detailed description of "S.O.E. France" etc?
3. Did you remove some sound effects? I don't hear any war entry sirens etc.
4. The Allies don't seem to put destroyers in the Bay of Biscay or along Norwegian Coast to catch my subs transiting.
5. The advance of Axis units in Barbarossa 1941 is quite historical but maybe a little TOO easy.
6. The Allied AI has no hope of stopping the Italians and the DAK in Egypt. I'm in Iraq by 1942. They need a buff.
7. I would suggest a NM event to hit Italy when they enter the war. "Italian Population Fears War with the Allies" or something. Italy''s NM should never be 90-100%.

[Lothos]

Still loving this MOD.

Playing into 1942 as Axis on Veteran and some observations:

1. Axis sub tech VERY slow. I didn't hit tech 1 until end of 1941. Is that intended?
2. Maybe we can get a more detailed description of "S.O.E. France" etc?
3. Did you remove some sound effects? I don't hear any war entry sirens etc.
4. The Allies don't seem to put destroyers in the Bay of Biscay or along Norwegian Coast to catch my subs transiting.
5. The advance of Axis units in Barbarossa 1941 is quite historical but maybe a little TOO easy.
6. The Allied AI has no hope of stopping the Italians and the DAK in Egypt. I'm in Iraq by 1942. They need a buff.
7. I would suggest a NM event to hit Italy when they enter the war. "Italian Population Fears War with the Allies" or something. Italy''s NM should never be 90-100%.

Response by numbers

1) Yes its intended
2) Not sure what I can do because it may look like SPAM after a while. Its just some minor damage to areas. The UK has an option to fund these special operations and if they do then random areas in Europe will get damaged. Its just small hits to the Axis MPP
3) No I did not. The sirens are attached to specific AI build up commands and not really associated to humans DOWing lol
4) Yea they try to avoid these areas because of land based Axis bombers
5) Play at max difficulty, it is easy in the begining but the Russians do recover in the winter.
6) Not always, played one game that the Allies beat the crap out of me cause of the Malta effect but I will make some changes
7) They still surrender if you invade them and take over several other areas. Its not really an issue.