TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.10b Download)

[Lothos]

The USA's inability to double chit is very hampering in her having the ability to catch up Tech wise.

Technically the US was behind in many techs

- They were behind in Aircraft in the early stages of the war
- They were behind in tanks tech the entire war
- They were behind in Anti-Tank the entire war
- They were behind in Submarine techs the entire war

The early years in the game the USA should focus on tech research, in particular their Industrial Techs (as top priority) and then focus on techs that have level 5.

I have the USA AI doing that and it worked just fine, USA did a good job of staying on par by the time 1943 came and then starting passing them in 1944+ because they had so much MP while the Axis was spending all their MP to reinforce.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Talking about the HQs being inexpensive and minors, particularly Finland...and why I like this change:
Finland (The Axis player) can now afford to purchase the additional Finn HQ so as to create a Karelian Army in and around Joensuu.

One of my biggest beefs with vanilla WiE was the fact that operations towards Petropavlovsk on Lake Onega never would happen. The Axis generally couldn't afford the high cost of buying that HQ. Now they can like the historical Continuation War-Barbarossa campaign.

I had a personal mod that created the Karelian Army with an HQ, 2 Corps, and 2 divisions so I could conduct that interesting campaign north of Lake Ladoga. Never could convince a few folks that this was desirable.

Anyways, thanks Lothos about your most recent insights.
I didn't realize that HQs are more durable and it makes perfect sense. In SC-American Civil War...the Devs handled the HQs the same. They are more robust. You basically have to pocket them to destroy them. (Only difference is in ACW..they are lost forever..which works there but wouldn't here)

[Unfortunate Son]

Talking about the HQs being inexpensive and minors, particularly Finland...and why I like this change:
Finland (The Axis player) can now afford to purchase the additional Finn HQ so as to create a Karelian Army in and around Joensuu.

One of my biggest beefs with vanilla WiE was the fact that operations towards Petropavlovsk on Lake Onega never would happen. The Axis generally couldn't afford the high cost of buying that HQ. Now they can like the historical Continuation War-Barbarossa campaign.

I had a personal mod that created the Karelian Army with an HQ, 2 Corps, and 2 divisions so I could conduct that interesting campaign north of Lake Ladoga. Never could convince a few folks that this was desirable.

Anyways, thanks Lothos about your most recent insights.
I didn't realize that HQs are more durable and it makes perfect sense. In SC-American Civil War...the Devs handled the HQs the same. They are more robust. You basically have to pocket them to destroy them. (Only difference is in ACW..they are lost forever..which works there but wouldn't here)

Old Crow ask and you shall receive. I believe this is what you are asking Lothos for in his mod. The army you desire actually does spawn when Finland joins the Axis.
Thanks for doing this Lothos.

[Lothos]

Talking about the HQs being inexpensive and minors, particularly Finland...and why I like this change:
Finland (The Axis player) can now afford to purchase the additional Finn HQ so as to create a Karelian Army in and around Joensuu.

One of my biggest beefs with vanilla WiE was the fact that operations towards Petropavlovsk on Lake Onega never would happen. The Axis generally couldn't afford the high cost of buying that HQ. Now they can like the historical Continuation War-Barbarossa campaign.

I had a personal mod that created the Karelian Army with an HQ, 2 Corps, and 2 divisions so I could conduct that interesting campaign north of Lake Ladoga. Never could convince a few folks that this was desirable.

Anyways, thanks Lothos about your most recent insights.
I didn't realize that HQs are more durable and it makes perfect sense. In SC-American Civil War...the Devs handled the HQs the same. They are more robust. You basically have to pocket them to destroy them. (Only difference is in ACW..they are lost forever..which works there but wouldn't here)

Old Crow ask and you shall receive. I believe this is what you are asking Lothos for in his mod. The army you desire actually does spawn when Finland joins the Axis.
Thanks for doing this Lothos.

The cool part is AI Germany actually sends troops to reinforce them (NOT with a Decision but they actually transport them over).

[Unfortunate Son]

Talking about the HQs being inexpensive and minors, particularly Finland...and why I like this change:
Finland (The Axis player) can now afford to purchase the additional Finn HQ so as to create a Karelian Army in and around Joensuu.

One of my biggest beefs with vanilla WiE was the fact that operations towards Petropavlovsk on Lake Onega never would happen. The Axis generally couldn't afford the high cost of buying that HQ. Now they can like the historical Continuation War-Barbarossa campaign.

I had a personal mod that created the Karelian Army with an HQ, 2 Corps, and 2 divisions so I could conduct that interesting campaign north of Lake Ladoga. Never could convince a few folks that this was desirable.

Anyways, thanks Lothos about your most recent insights.
I didn't realize that HQs are more durable and it makes perfect sense. In SC-American Civil War...the Devs handled the HQs the same. They are more robust. You basically have to pocket them to destroy them. (Only difference is in ACW..they are lost forever..which works there but wouldn't here)

Old Crow ask and you shall receive. I believe this is what you are asking Lothos for in his mod. The army you desire actually does spawn when Finland joins the Axis.
Thanks for doing this Lothos.

The cool part is AI Germany actually sends troops to reinforce them (NOT with a Decision but they actually transport them over).

Nice!

[Taxman66]

June 5, 1940: GE AI has built a Strat Bomber. I think this purchase choice is questionable at best.

I partly see why you disallow Tech double chits:
With more turns per year, Tech feels like it is coming earlier. It also helps that while per turn MPP is lower than the base game, I'm betting that MPP per year is higher. Expenses are also lower (In addition to HQs, INF units (with no Armies, and minor's at less costs). This also leads to an easier time maxing out research, at least for UK & GE, don't know about Italy and the others can't due to low income via Mobilization %.

If that is intended ok, if not you might want to tinker with the research formulas.

------
Observation:

France plays very differently. Unlike the base game where France has to choose hard if they want to buy a unit, here she can and should buy many; And/or invest in some early research. Also possibly invest in research near the end so that when France is liberated her units won't be as hopelessly far behind as they are in the base game.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Talking about the HQs being inexpensive and minors, particularly Finland...and why I like this change:
Finland (The Axis player) can now afford to purchase the additional Finn HQ so as to create a Karelian Army in and around Joensuu.

One of my biggest beefs with vanilla WiE was the fact that operations towards Petropavlovsk on Lake Onega never would happen. The Axis generally couldn't afford the high cost of buying that HQ. Now they can like the historical Continuation War-Barbarossa campaign.

I had a personal mod that created the Karelian Army with an HQ, 2 Corps, and 2 divisions so I could conduct that interesting campaign north of Lake Ladoga. Never could convince a few folks that this was desirable.

Anyways, thanks Lothos about your most recent insights.
I didn't realize that HQs are more durable and it makes perfect sense. In SC-American Civil War...the Devs handled the HQs the same. They are more robust. You basically have to pocket them to destroy them. (Only difference is in ACW..they are lost forever..which works there but wouldn't here)

Old Crow ask and you shall receive. I believe this is what you are asking Lothos for in his mod. The army you desire actually does spawn when Finland joins the Axis.
Thanks for doing this Lothos.

The cool part is AI Germany actually sends troops to reinforce them (NOT with a Decision but they actually transport them over).

I'll be damned! That's nearly exact to what I created for the Finn Karelian Army). Sounds great the German AI would send Germans over. The GER 167th Inf Division was in Karelia as support...not to mention GER Mt Infantry up in Petsamo and the GER Nordland Inf Div on the Salla Front in 1941. Thanks Lothos. Also thanks Unfortunate Son for posting the Finland image. This is something I wanted in WiE for years.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

June 5, 1940: GE AI has built a Strat Bomber. I think this purchase choice is questionable at best.

I partly see why you disallow Tech double chits:
With more turns per year, Tech feels like it is coming earlier. It also helps that while per turn MPP is lower than the base game, I'm betting that MPP per year is higher. Expenses are also lower (In addition to HQs, INF units (with no Armies, and minor's at less costs). This also leads to an easier time maxing out research, at least for UK & GE, don't know about Italy and the others can't due to low income via Mobilization %.

If that is intended ok, if not you might want to tinker with the research formulas.

------
Observation:

France plays very differently. Unlike the base game where France has to choose hard if they want to buy a unit, here she can and should buy many; And/or invest in some early research. Also possibly invest in research near the end so that when France is liberated her units won't be as hopelessly far behind as they are in the base game.

These are all good questions and observations.

[Taxman66]

In a early July 1940 turn, GE AI declared war on Luxembourg, and before waltzing in (with nothing but French pill boxes nearby) needlessly bombed it with that Strat bomber.

[Lothos]

June 5, 1940: GE AI has built a Strat Bomber. I think this purchase choice is questionable at best.

I partly see why you disallow Tech double chits:
With more turns per year, Tech feels like it is coming earlier. It also helps that while per turn MPP is lower than the base game, I'm betting that MPP per year is higher. Expenses are also lower (In addition to HQs, INF units (with no Armies, and minor's at less costs). This also leads to an easier time maxing out research, at least for UK & GE, don't know about Italy and the others can't due to low income via Mobilization %.

If that is intended ok, if not you might want to tinker with the research formulas.

------
Observation:

France plays very differently. Unlike the base game where France has to choose hard if they want to buy a unit, here she can and should buy many; And/or invest in some early research. Also possibly invest in research near the end so that when France is liberated her units won't be as hopelessly far behind as they are in the base game.

The AI did not build a strat bomber, it was via event. I agree it is not efficient for the Germans to build one and a human player would not as they have the luxury of foresight (history) while the AI does not. I gave it via event and removed a different event that was giving the Germans other unit types. The strat bomber gets locked into place for about 2 years so the AI will bomb the UK (Battle for Britain). Same goes for the UK strat bomber, it is locked into place so UK will bomb Germany.

Best I could I do to simulate The Battle for Birtain

As for tech, yes you are right but you missed one thing. Casualties will be ALLOT higher so although your MP overall is higher you will spend allot of it reinforcing your units and rebuilding them.

France, you are right their strategy is different. Because they continue fighting after they surrender and you get Free France (which has allot of units that can be built) you have some tough decisions. Do you put MP into tech for a long game plan or do you put all your MP into your units to give the Germans a harder time and cause them more casualties. Reason research is important is that once they surrender you can no longer research tech and they become stuck at that point. It makes sense to try and research Infantry (since max is level 2) on the hopes it is completed before they surrender. Tough choice!

[Lothos]

In a early July 1940 turn, GE AI declared war on Luxembourg, and before waltzing in (with nothing but French pill boxes nearby) needlessly bombed it with that Strat bomber.

Actual target piking is in the EXE and not something I can control. I believe the AI is just looking for the easiest Allied target to bomb. I am surprised they waited till July to Invade, Poland must have lasted a long time.

Usually they start their invasion in April

[Taxman66]

BUG:
Got the wrong DE display/text pop-up after Vichy France was created. Pop-up asked if I wanted to continue through the straights of Gibraltar (1. Still UK owned, and 2. No ships in the transverse boxes). When I reflectively selected 'No' the next messages were about the UK recognizing Vichy France.

TRP Bug.jpg (752.39 KiB) Viewed 877 times

Comments:
I agree about your point regarding more casualties. Have not been able to maintain the UK at full Tech investment. Did hit max but it has dropped off dramatically to repair and upgrade navy (seeing Italy with BB's at naval 1 in July/August of 1940).
Speaking of which, Tech, that is spent on, is still coming early.

Is the UK strat bomber stuck for players or only the UK AI? Is there a message/alert about when it can be redeployed? Suggest such a message for both sides.

Any other surprises? I haven't seen the 7th Armour DE yet, was it removed or is my remembering of its timing off?

[Lothos]

BUG:
Got the wrong DE display/text pop-up after Vichy France was created. Pop-up asked if I wanted to continue through the straights of Gibraltar (1. Still UK owned, and 2. No ships in the transverse boxes). When I reflectively selected 'No' the next messages were about the UK recognizing Vichy France.

TRP Bug.jpg

Comments:
I agree about your point regarding more casualties. Have not been able to maintain the UK at full Tech investment. Did hit max but it has dropped off dramatically to repair and upgrade navy (seeing Italy with BB's at naval 1 in July/August of 1940).
Speaking of which, Tech, that is spent on, is still coming early.

Is the UK strat bomber stuck for players or only the UK AI? Is there a message/alert about when it can be redeployed? Suggest such a message for both sides.

Any other surprises? I haven't seen the 7th Armour DE yet, was it removed or is my remembering of its timing off?

I will look into the bug you reported, thank you

I will see if tech really is coming early or does it just feel like it is, let me take a look and get back to you

Strat bomber being locked is AI only and has no effect on a human player

7th Armour DE is still their

[Taxman66]

Note these are all observations, not complaints or suggestions for change:

1. It appears that Tech progression formula was left the same from the base game. If so then Tech will take the same number of turns as it does in the base game (excluding double chits). That means that it will arrive sooner in terms of Calander date/time.

2. The USA is sitting in the high 30s to low 40s mobilization and is making less than 30 MPP (2 of which get shipped to the UK). So far this has further put her further behind the Tech game. See 3a & 3c below.

3a. Just noticed an 'industry' pop-up big box message for the USA after Vichy declared (2 Oil & 2 Mines just started to activate. These are fully on for the USA from start, iirc, in the base game).
3b. Similarly, a small pop-up message about Stalin being shocked regarding the Fall of France. The increase in mobilization seems to match (give or take a few % points) the loss in mobilization for Annexing the Baltic States & Bessarabia
3c. Given 3a & 3b, it seems to be a perverse disincentive to keep France fighting as long as possible. Still think it's worth doing to make Sealion harder and to stall the attack on Malta/Egypt.

4. Did not notice the FW event that makes it very hard to stuff Libya with GE units early. Did I miss it, or was it removed?

5. I have concerns about what the extra number of turns is going to do in the Battle for Egypt, particularly in multiplayer.

[Lothos]

Note these are all observations, not complaints or suggestions for change:

1. It appears that Tech progression formula was left the same from the base game. If so then Tech will take the same number of turns as it does in the base game (excluding double chits). That means that it will arrive sooner in terms of Calander date/time.

2. The USA is sitting in the high 30s to low 40s mobilization and is making less than 30 MPP (2 of which get shipped to the UK). So far this has further put her further behind the Tech game. See 3a & 3c below.

3a. Just noticed an 'industry' pop-up big box message for the USA after Vichy declared (2 Oil & 2 Mines just started to activate. These are fully on for the USA from start, iirc, in the base game).
3b. Similarly, a small pop-up message about Stalin being shocked regarding the Fall of France. The increase in mobilization seems to match (give or take a few % points) the loss in mobilization for Annexing the Baltic States & Bessarabia
3c. Given 3a & 3b, it seems to be a perverse disincentive to keep France fighting as long as possible. Still think it's worth doing to make Sealion harder and to stall the attack on Malta/Egypt.

4. Did not notice the FW event that makes it very hard to stuff Libya with GE units early. Did I miss it, or was it removed?

5. I have concerns about what the extra number of turns is going to do in the Battle for Egypt, particularly in multiplayer.

1 - I have to look into it, I thought it was time based and not turn based. If so I will change it. Production is time based.

2, 3a - This is on purpose, USA did not have allot of production for military units. You should not build anything in the early years and save all your MP for research (I made the AI do the same thing). The USA spent 1942 and 1943 playing catchup. The old setup did not allow that, instead USA was ready for D-Day by January 1943.

3b, 3c - Its a choice, by letting Germany get France early you may increase the Soviet production BUT you also increase the German production (even more than the soviet)

4 - What do you mean by FW? Their are only a few events for the Italians to deploy troops in Libya and the only German event is the Africa Corps. Other than that their are no other units, you will need to transport them (the Italian and German AI do this so its worth keeping UK ships in the med to try and intercept).

5 - AI has very low chance against a human player, if its to easy increase the difficulty. I always play with max MP bonus and +1 to experience with max difficulty slider (which gives the AI FREE Research instead of paying for it).

[Taxman66]

1 - I have to look into it, I thought it was time based and not turn based. If so I will change it. Production is time based.

2, 3a - This is on purpose, USA did not have allot of production for military units. You should not build anything in the early years and save all your MP for research (I made the AI do the same thing). The USA spent 1942 and 1943 playing catchup. The old setup did not allow that, instead USA was ready for D-Day by January 1943.

3b, 3c - Its a choice, by letting Germany get France early you may increase the Soviet production BUT you also increase the German production (even more than the soviet)

4 - What do you mean by FW? Their are only a few events for the Italians to deploy troops in Libya and the only German event is the Africa Corps. Other than that their are no other units, you will need to transport them (the Italian and German AI do this so its worth keeping UK ships in the med to try and intercept).

5 - AI has very low chance against a human player, if its to easy increase the difficulty. I always play with max MP bonus and +1 to experience with max difficulty slider (which gives the AI FREE Research instead of paying for it).

1. The formula works based on how much % increase you get each turn + the break through formula. Reducing the base formula needs to be done carefully, you don't ever want to have 0% increases. Maybe the best bet is to nerf the breakthroughs a bit.

2. <shrug> I've found that if the US is planning a 1943 D-Day, then it is likely not helping much against Subs, or fighting in Italy, or is sacrificing Tech catch ups. Even in the base game or Fall Weiss (FW) I normally don't spend on any units until 1941, and then simply to build up the existing units and buy a Ranger. When playing against AI with MPP bonus or AI is going Sub crazy I invest extra in ASW and buy the CVLs. With TRP (now Fall of 1940), the US is way behind on Tech. While I'm sure they can beat the Torch defenders, any thought of helping the UK defend the Middle East (in a Multiplayer where the Axis often over run Egypt), or landing in Sicily/Italy so far seems far fetched. Not 100% sure though as maybe the ramp up and extra turns (without causalties->repairs) will balance things out. Remember observation, not complaint or request for change (yet).

3. Just pointing it out. Feels like a penalty for doing well. Again, observation, not complaint or request for change.

4. Fall Weiss (FW) has an event after Italy declares war where the ports in Libya are all damaged. This is to prevent GE units from easily/safely rushing into Libya to bolster and advance quickly into Egypt before the UK can really be ready (sans abandoning France before it gets started).

5. My concern is nearly completely for Multi Player.

[Taxman66]

Minor Bug:

While playing single player vs. Axis AI the Axis Strategic Advice regarding Vigo/Spanish Ports was displayed.

[Lothos]

Minor Bug:

While playing single player vs. Axis AI the Axis Strategic Advice regarding Vigo/Spanish Ports was displayed.

I fixed the first event bug you found for Gibraltar

I need more information on the new one you just reported.

What was the text you saw so I can track down which event it came from.

[Lothos]

1 - I have to look into it, I thought it was time based and not turn based. If so I will change it. Production is time based.

2, 3a - This is on purpose, USA did not have allot of production for military units. You should not build anything in the early years and save all your MP for research (I made the AI do the same thing). The USA spent 1942 and 1943 playing catchup. The old setup did not allow that, instead USA was ready for D-Day by January 1943.

3b, 3c - Its a choice, by letting Germany get France early you may increase the Soviet production BUT you also increase the German production (even more than the soviet)

4 - What do you mean by FW? Their are only a few events for the Italians to deploy troops in Libya and the only German event is the Africa Corps. Other than that their are no other units, you will need to transport them (the Italian and German AI do this so its worth keeping UK ships in the med to try and intercept).

5 - AI has very low chance against a human player, if its to easy increase the difficulty. I always play with max MP bonus and +1 to experience with max difficulty slider (which gives the AI FREE Research instead of paying for it).

1. The formula works based on how much % increase you get each turn + the break through formula. Reducing the base formula needs to be done carefully, you don't ever want to have 0% increases. Maybe the best bet is to nerf the breakthroughs a bit.

2. <shrug> I've found that if the US is planning a 1943 D-Day, then it is likely not helping much against Subs, or fighting in Italy, or is sacrificing Tech catch ups. Even in the base game or Fall Weiss (FW) I normally don't spend on any units until 1941, and then simply to build up the existing units and buy a Ranger. When playing against AI with MPP bonus or AI is going Sub crazy I invest extra in ASW and buy the CVLs. With TRP (now Fall of 1940), the US is way behind on Tech. While I'm sure they can beat the Torch defenders, any thought of helping the UK defend the Middle East (in a Multiplayer where the Axis often over run Egypt), or landing in Sicily/Italy so far seems far fetched. Not 100% sure though as maybe the ramp up and extra turns (without causalties->repairs) will balance things out. Remember observation, not complaint or request for change (yet).

3. Just pointing it out. Feels like a penalty for doing well. Again, observation, not complaint or request for change.

4. Fall Weiss (FW) has an event after Italy declares war where the ports in Libya are all damaged. This is to prevent GE units from easily/safely rushing into Libya to bolster and advance quickly into Egypt before the UK can really be ready (sans abandoning France before it gets started).

5. My concern is nearly completely for Multi Player.

1 - Give me an idea of how much faster is tech? Does it feel like its 50% faster (so instead of a year (non TRP game) it is finished in 6 months (a TRP game)) etc....?

2 - The old German AI did not really build any subs, the TRP AI it does but the UK has allot of ships to help control the ocean and the USA gets ships (via event) that is more than enough to help. I've seen USA having a massive amount of troops siting int he UK by early 1943. And as mentioned before, the USA was not advanced in all techs you need to prioritize what is important. They were behind in their Tank Techs, Anti-Tank Techs to the Germans. Allot of people (cause I have had this discussion when I modded Hearts of Iron) believe that the USA should exceed in all techs but that is really not the case of what happened. Your research needs to be based on your strategy and you can't just do a blanket research everything. I found it best not to build any units and just focus on research until mid 1941 and then start building. Remember the USA did not really perform any operations in Europe until the end of 1942 (almost an entire year after Pearl Harbor).

3 - Apologies, not sure what you mean by a penalty for doing well?

4 - Those events are their but fire randomly and are based on Malta Supply hampering them.

5 - I would say lets see how a real Multiplayer Game goes before I make severe adjustments.

[Lothos]

One thing to note, I am not finding (in the editor) where I can adjust how long research takes. The Advance tab under Research does not appear to effect time and it effects only what the increments do.