Problem with guerillas?

[Dr_Talon]

I have been playing the Yugoslavia scenario, which I used to play on TOAW III. However, around turn 25 or so, every unit I have loses supply. Not only my conventional troops and irregulars lose supply, but also my Chetnik guerrillas. I am confused by why I am suddenly having a supply blackout, and even more so by the fact that I thought that guerillas were never unsupplied.

Is this a rule change in TOAW IV, a bug, or a bad porting of the scenario?

[Zovs]

What’s the exact name and version of the scenario?

[Dr_Talon]

The problem is that when I try to be precise with numbers, I am told that I cannot post phone numbers, links, etc. from the date of my tenth post. For that reason, I had to edit my OP to be more vague in order to post it. The scenario is at the very bottom of “WWII - misc.” and designed by Igor Rzaunek.

[Lobster]

Some people just post ten or more posts with

...

in some seldom used forum. [:D]

[Dr_Talon]

It turns out that when I lose the supply point at Uzice, I lose all supply. However, why then would my guerilla units be unsupplied?

[Raindem]

Guerilla units are supplied when they first enter. But if they move off that original hex, or if enemy units move adjacent to them, then the regular supply rules start to kick in. They still retain some supply benefits over regular units but it is possible to put them out of supply. This is just based off of my observations in scenarios with Guerilla units. There's probably a bunch of other factors in play I'm not aware of.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Raindem
Guerilla units are supplied when they first enter. But if they move off that original hex, or if enemy units move adjacent to them, then the regular supply rules start to kick in. They still retain some supply benefits over regular units but it is possible to put them out of supply.

Section 16.1.2 of the manual says: "Guerrilla units always draw at least “normal” supply, regardless of whether their location is friendly-supplied or not."

[sPzAbt653]

I think the G's are 'Unsupplied' but still get [draw] supply. Leave one of them alone for a turn and see what their Supply level does compared to a non-G unit in the same situation. This is similar to 'Airborne' supply, where units are definitely Unsupplid but can still get some from 'air drops'.

[Dr_Talon]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I think the G's are 'Unsupplied' but still get [draw] supply. Leave one of them alone for a turn and see what their Supply level does compared to a non-G unit in the same situation. This is similar to 'Airborne' supply, where units are definitely Unsupplid but can still get some from 'air drops'.

Well, I’ll have to do some detailed observation, but I left the game on autoplay until turn 33. All of my units (except for the most recent reinforcements) had 1-2% supply, and the manpower was greatly reduced from desertions. All of the ones that I checked had something like “8 of 78 rifle squads”. They were essentially combat useless.

[sPzAbt653]

Well, I’ll have to do some detailed observation

Yes, it's not always easy to detect. Sometimes you will only get 1 Supply a turn. I guess is it possible to get less if the 'regular' Supply Level was low enough. Once below the threshold, Desertions do begin.

However, if 'Guerrilla units are always supplied', then it seems they shouldn't be 'unsupplied'. Do the units in question have the 'G' Icon? I'm not sure which Yugoslavia scenario you are playing.

Also, Curt said this earlier - Guerilla units are supplied when they first enter. But if they move off that original hex, or if enemy units move adjacent to them, then the regular supply rules start to kick in.
I'm not aware of that, so we may be up against something not well documented, or something else, something more ... evil.

[Curtis Lemay]

I'd be interested to know if he is using Old or New Supply Rules. Or whether that makes a difference. (Maybe this fell through the cracks with New Supply).

[Zovs]

For myself I always am using the New Supply Rules. I’ll try to keep my eyes open since I have several scenarios that use both partisans and new supply rules.

[Dr_Talon]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

I'd be interested to know if he is using Old or New Supply Rules. Or whether that makes a difference. (Maybe this fell through the cracks with New Supply).

I've been using new supply rules, although I went back into my save and switched them off mid-game (I don't know if that works or not) and still get the same results. When I played this in TOAW III I don't remember having this issue.

Do the units in question have the 'G' Icon? I'm not sure which Yugoslavia scenario you are playing.

Yes, they do. And while I would love to tell you the exact name of the scenario, this forum forbids me from using numbers until my 10th post or so. But it is the very last scenario in the "WWII - misc." folder.

[Zovs]

ORIGINAL: Dr_Talon
Yes, they do. And while I would love to tell you the exact name of the scenario, this forum forbids me from using numbers until my 10th post or so. But it is the very last scenario in the "WWII - misc." folder.

Go to the General forum and post a new thread saying you'd like your restrictions lifted. Von Paulus will hook you up.


Then you'll be free to posted.

BTW I have a heavily modified Balkans scenario that I have upgraded from TOAW III (or before) for TOAW IV (new color mod, added in supply points for new supply rules, updated map, units, etc.) I has part of Yugoslavia on it, but once the Axis take a key city then all the Yugo's units are removed. So not sure if this is the same scenario or not.

PS I plan on posting a slew of updated, revised and refreshed scenarios by end of the year.

[sPzAbt653]

I think it's this one, thanks. Lots of G's and also multiple Supply Points for them.

One of us will have to set up a test scenario to see what is going on.

[Zovs]

Thanks Steve, I’ll have to look fir that scenario, the one I have modified is different.

[MilanceMileIde12]

Made an account to say that I'm experiencing the same issue. What's happening in my game is that once every 4-5 turns,all my guerrillas get supplies,but are left un-supplied for the next 4-5 turns and become,as someone already said,useless. The hex they are standing on doesn't matter,they hexes next to them show that they're un-supplied (except for that one turn),be it in a city or in the middle of a mountain. The exception to all of this is one island with a port,where units get 40+ supply points(or whatever you call them) every single turn.

[Dr_Talon]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I think it's this one, thanks. Lots of G's and also multiple Supply Points for them.

One of us will have to set up a test scenario to see what is going on.

That’s the one. I love that scenario, because it’s one of the only ones which has a focus on guerrilla warfare. I love the feeling of that game, especially the early game, when my modest guerrilla bands are hiding in the mountains and the forests, surrounded by powerful conventional troops. It feels exhilarating to surround and destroy an enemy unit, to temporarily liberate a city, or to carve out zones of control. It feels like Red Dawn at a strategic level.

I wish there were more scenarios focusing on partisan warfare. There could be scenarios about other WWII resistance movements, about post-war insurgencies against Soviet domination (like the Forest Brothers of the Baltic nations) or the Nicaraguan Civil War. There are so many unexplored possibilities.

[MilanceMileIde12]

While I agree that having more scenarios like this would be a good thing,the game wasn't made for this kind of scenario. This is especially evident in this one. The creator had to simplify the war a lot for it to work out. It just isn't possible to be historically accurate with the 2-side system of this game.

It's still a good scenario,considering the limitations the creator had.

[Dr_Talon]

ORIGINAL: MilanceMileIde12

While I agree that having more scenarios like this would be a good thing,the game wasn't made for this kind of scenario. This is especially evident in this one. The creator had to simplify the war a lot for it to work out. It just isn't possible to be historically accurate with the 2-side system of this game.

It's still a good scenario,considering the limitations the creator had.

True, although Yugoslavia was unusually complex, no? I'm sure that there could be good scenarios done on the wars that I mentioned,or the Soviet-Afgan war. The Lithuanian resistance against the Soviets was pretty clear-cut, from what I understand.