TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

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RFalvo69
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TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

Post by RFalvo69 »

I played the “Battle for Germany” scenario from the Third World War series by Trey Marshall, version 2.0 (based on TWW by GDW - whose “Designer Edition” I just soloed on the tabletop). The map and the units are just perfect, but, under TOAW IV NATO was just obliterated.

Checking the scenario in the builder I discovered that the WP has five turns of 150 Shock Level followed by five turns of 125 Shock Level! 😳 These numbers, under TOAW IV, are insane. Also, no other scenario in the series has values this high for the Soviet/WP forces, not even those who include Germany as a theatre - 125 Initial Shock Level being the norm.

I’m now experimenting with these values. “Battle for Germany” is a nice, self contained strategic look at the WWIII in Europe that can be played in a couple of hours and it just perfect for PBEM. I created a 2.1 version with WP having only 125 Shock Value for the first four turns (2 weeks); while it seems that I strongly curtailed the WP, the flow of the game feels already better as NATO. The WP has 2 weeks to rush to the Rhine before NATO starts counter-attacking. NATO, meanwhile, must trade space for conservation of forces and then start the Great Push-back.

However, my scenario-fu is not that great. I’m mostly improvising. So, I’m looking for help by more experienced designers.

My aims are:

- To get permission from the creator(s) to edit the scenario - of course!
- To create two versions of it: one balanced for HtH and one for NATO vs. the PO (and maybe a third for WP vs. PO).
- To use appropriate TOAW IV features that were unavailable when the scenario was first created.
- Maybe port the experience to other scenarios in the series so to create a 3.0 version balanced for TOAW IV.

Edit: For example, considering the age of the scenario, would it be suggested to use “High Supply” in the options?

To be clear, my main aim is to adapt the German front so to return an experience similar to the original tabletop inspiration - and learn something in the process. It is potentially one of the best scenarios in TOAW IV and it would be a pity to waste it. What I want is to bring a beautiful classic series into TOAW IV - not to do something from scratch.

Any help/suggestions are welcome!
Last edited by RFalvo69 on Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zovs
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Re: TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

Post by Zovs »

I got permission from Trey to rework these about two or three years ago, I had fished that work just never posted them yet.
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Re: TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

Post by sPzAbt653 »

RFalvo69 wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:36 am Edit: For example, considering the age of the scenario, would it be suggested to use “High Supply” in the options?
High Supply: This gives a boost of 50% to the resupply rate. Scenarios designed with very early versions of TOAW often had drastically under-supplied forces due to a misunderstanding of the total amount of supply that would be received by on-map units. Use this to counterbalance that effect and for games between very aggressive players.

I thought I would post that because it may help you in making a decision.
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Re: TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

Post by Zovs »

Looks like I last worked on these 3 years ago and have not posted yet.

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Here is part of the changes I made via the document I created.

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Here is my change log that I wrote up.

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Re: TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

Post by Zovs »

I have created a zip file its 4megs, not sure if I can post that here or not. Also, I know I can't load up my graphic mods but can or need to use a dropbox link for that.

That being said since you mentioned BFG here is a screenshot of that.

Opening screen:

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Turn start zoomed out view:

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Zoomed in view, note I created this to use my flat counter and NATO war game counter and map mod.

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Unfortunately, I think one has to download each separately (my board war game graphics mod and my converted scenarios for Trey).
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Re: TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

Post by RFalvo69 »

I do have version 2.0. I got the link on these fora, but I don’t know if your 2.0 version and mine are the same. I found my TWW 2.0 scenarios here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... w#p4703210

No graphics mods, nothing else, so I guess that you worked on them after publishing version 2.0. If this is the case, then the most recent version should be 3.0 or such.

Could you check the scenario with only the German theatre? If around event 120 you see 150% shock for the WP for turns 1-5 (plus 125% for turns 6-10) then there is a problem in your scenarios too - as the WP just deletes the NATO forces. There is no game. My aim is to recreate the tension of the board game, where things can really go either way. The WP must win as quickly as they can, or stem the NATO resurgence and still hope for a tactical victory or a draw.

Regarding increased supply, yes, I read that paragraph - I only wonder if it is applicable to the version 2.0 that I have. I’m told that it was upgraded for TOAW IV but for sure isn’t. You only need a couple of turns of play test to see the problem.
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Re: TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

Post by Zovs »

RFalvo69 wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:23 pm I do have version 2.0. I got the link on these fora, but I don’t know if your 2.0 version and mine are the same. I found my TWW 2.0 scenarios here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... w#p4703210

No graphics mods, nothing else, so I guess that you worked on them after publishing version 2.0. If this is the case, then the most recent version should be 3.0 or such.

Could you check the scenario with only the German theatre? If around event 120 you see 150% shock for the WP for turns 1-5 (plus 125% for turns 6-10) then there is a problem in your scenarios too - as the WP just deletes the NATO forces. There is no game. My aim is to recreate the tension of the board game, where things can really go either way. The WP must win as quickly as they can, or stem the NATO resurgence and still hope for a tactical victory or a draw.

Regarding increased supply, yes, I read that paragraph - I only wonder if it is applicable to the version 2.0 that I have. I’m told that it was upgraded for TOAW IV but for sure isn’t. You only need a couple of turns of play test to see the problem.
No those are the old version I believe. If you look at the time stamps those were from 9/2020 I believe and the latest I did was from 12/2020 I believe.
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Re: TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

Post by RFalvo69 »

Yes, these are the old versions. I then suggest that you change the most recent version to 3.0 so to avoid confusion. And it is. now futile for me to work on the ones I have, given the fact that there already are newer revisions.

Still, double check the Shock Values for the Pact. They are the main problem under TOAW IV.

Edit: If you already had permission to post the modified scenarios (and you did), why you don’t know if you can post this version here?
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Re: TWW Scenarios by Trey Marshall in need of a rework

Post by Elemental »

I loved these scenarios! Are the updated versions uploaded onto Matrix? :D
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