German rifle squads in WW2

[cathar1244]

I was over at the KSTN website looking at German infantry organization in the first year or two of the war.

For the Polish campaign, it looks like their squads had 13 men (based on 1937 orgs), but by October 1939 an organization came out with 10 men in a squad.

Anyone know if that is how it worked in the field in the Polish campaign -- ideally, 13 man squads; and then down to 10 man squads by the campaign in the West in 1940?

Cheers

[Lobster]

I usually check Niehorster for stuff like that. http://niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm

[Lobster]

If Niehorster fails me I sometimes go here: https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstnmain.htm

[cathar1244]

Oddly, Niehorster's website does not agree with his description in his "organizational series" book. But his book description matches that of the KSTN website for the Polish campaign organizations --> platoon had three 13 man squads and 3 LMGs.

The 1940 campaign is a bit harder to read, but it looks like both sources agree the platoons had moved to four ten man squads, adding an LMG to each platoon.

I am curious about how rapidly the KSTN changes were implemented.

Cheers

[Lobster]

The Germans had ample time from the end of the Polish campaign to the beginning of the French campaign. There was a lot of expansion going on in between the two. There wasn't a manpower shortage. Not read anything about infantry equipment shortages. It would probably be safe to assume they got things sorted out before they moved against the West. Any new divisions would likely have the new TOE if it was in effect at or before they were formed.

[cathar1244]

Sounds like implementation may not have been complete. Interesting discussion here:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=217913

Also forgot about Gary Kennedy's site. Now with information in the form of pdf files.

http://www.bayonetstrength.uk/index.htm

Cheers

[Lobster]

You could look here: https://www.alternatewars.com/Nafziger/ ... 9-1940.htm

I'm sure the information is available someplace.

[sPzAbt653]

I don't know the answers to these questions, but here are two docs that may shed some light on it all. First, Fred's pdf has some notes that you can check as you flip thru it, and then there is a text doc put together as a handy quick reference when building oob's.

[cathar1244]

I don't know the answers to these questions, but here are two docs that may shed some light on it all. First, Fred's pdf has some notes that you can check as you flip thru it, and then there is a text doc put together as a handy quick reference when building oob's.

Thanks!

Cheers

[cathar1244]

I see this on Gary's site. Still no indication of how swiftly the changes were implemented, but I'd guess most of the infantry divisions involved in the campaign in the West had moved over by May 1940.

Rifle Company ‘c’ (1940 to 1942)
In early October 1939 a set of temporary Rifle Company and Machine Gun Company
KStN were issued, both suffixed ‘c’. The key changes were a reduction in the
strength of the Rifle Squad to ten men, accompanied by the addition of a fourth Rifle
Squad to each Rifle Platoon.

http://www.bayonetstrength.uk/GermanArm ... 938-45.pdf

I suspect any more detail would have to be found in the archives of individual divisions.

Cheers