UPDATE5 - WIP - 02/08/2018

[Peter Fisla]

Hi All,

I have started working on UPDATE5, I have the following features done:

1) Added native 4K resolution

2) Added new special command "ATTACK HEX" to AI when AI set is to ADVANCE. This feature allows a unit assigned with this command to attack and defend a specific hex only. This feature will allow the scenario designer a great control over AI units. This feature is currently available in the game to AI when AI is HOLD, the special command is called "DEFEND HEX".

3) AI leaders with no additional personnel units in the same hex will now try to move to a hex with broken units or good order units in a hex without a leader. [January 31, 2018]

4) Implemented AI Medium and Heavy Machine Guns long range fire, in AI Fire Segment, AI Defensive Fire Segment or AI Defensive Fire during Player's Movement Segment. In addition, only if AI is on HOLD (meaning AI is defending in a scenario) and if an AI personnel unit does not have special ATTACK command.

5) Eligible Ordnance, AFVs having ability to fire smoke rounds in AI vs human player scenarios. - work in progress.

[rico21]

I don't know if it is a good thing.[&o]
Seen Before this update UP844 didn't win any scenarios.[:D]

[UP844]

Thanks for the update, Peter! Both 2) and 3) will open new possibilities.

Any chance to see AI infantry firing at long range? (Yes, I know I sound like a broken record, but I think this is The Flaw requiring attention).

[fuselex]

Looking forward to the update peter.
Any comments to help improve the AI benefits all.

just posting a pic of how i would imagine AI long range fire to actually effect a scenario
The rules i play by may not actually be the Toth rules, so any corrections are welcome , especially step 2

step 1 - german unit moves , russian unit fires at long range with a firepower of 2
step 2 - german unit moves and i think the russian unit can take a second shot at half firepower which would be 2 again.

I would feel reasonably comfortable moving that german unit through step 1& 2 if the AI was programmed for long range fire.
Not so comfortable moving the german unit into step 2 if there was no long range fire .

As the game progresses these things i`m sure will be looked at , but at this point i think the long range fire for the AI will make the game
easier for the player.

The key to overcoming the pro`s and con`s ,I believe is held by the scenario designers ,

[rico21]

1- AI long range fire for support weapon- OK
2- If you want an offensive AI, don't search it in firepower but in the speed.
Allow AI squad to do foot movement x2 and you can start to be afraid.
I made an analogic mod in Battle Academy to boost AI.

[UP844]

Perhaps I have been misunderstood: I never said the AI must always take any low chance hit at long range. Currently, however, it never takes a hit a long range, and this makes playing TOTH much easier than it could be. Despite what Rico says, I don't get all those Major Victories with impressive loss ratios by sheer luck. My units fire at the enemy (as they are supposed to do) and the AI fires far less often (let's not forget the AI almost never fires when its FP are halved: have you ever seen moving or pinned AI units fire?).

The current absence of long range fire means the human player can safely stay out of the normal range of the enemy infantry and play firing squad with 100% certainty that he will not receive any fire. He can also merrily move in the open (a thing I learnt to avoid the first time I played SL back in 1977). Would any human player refuse to fire in a similar situation?

On a side note, in the example you reported, the Russian squad will fire 2 FP, but with a -2 DRM: a roll of 8 or less (72.2%) will have some effect on the target. I wouldn't throw away such a chance.

Moreover, did you ever notice an AI unit moving towards your units, survive Defensive Fire and not firing? This means it will have to endure another Fire Phase before it can fire (provided it survives).

Finally, I still wonder why AFVs always fire after moving (with abysmal chances to hit, +4 for moving and +1 for being BU).

[UP844]

ORIGINAL: rico21

1- AI long range fire for support weapon- OK
2- If you want an offensive AI, don't search it in firepower but in the speed.
Allow AI squad to do foot movement x2 and you can start to be afraid.
I made an analogic mod in Battle Academy to boost AI.

1 - Why support weapons and not infantry?
2 - Since when movement kills (or at least hurts) enemies?

[rico21]

My vision of the fight is that while a squad goes on the assault of an enemy squad, a friendly squad uses his support weapon to do some suppression on the target squad.
I invented nothing, it's the theory of fire and movement.

[fuselex]

once again Up844 .
just in your replies , you have given so much information.
The example above I posted was how I thought long range fire would work .

[UP844]

@ Fuselex: the issue involves more than long-range fire. Just try playing any scenario and take note of how many times you and the AI fire (excluding AFVs).

@ Rico: I fully agree with you. I think you will agree that applying the fire-and-movement theory when nobody is firing at you is much simpler [:D]. Here, we call it a massacro (in English: massacre), not a battle.

[Peter Fisla]

I will look into AI personnel units using long range fire and see what I can do.

[genesismwt]

The trick to this game is to get your opponent(AI or human) to take bad shots to open up maneuver opportunities for your other units. I find that in most situations, the AI will take the first shot that presents itself and will continue until it has run out of shots, or the unit is broken/eliminated. The AI sometimes passes on half squads, or shots at moving vehicles when the gun has to change its covered arc, but I feel that I can always count on a full squad being fired upon, if the AI can. I think it was addressed before that the decision was made to limit the ai to normal range due to this tendency. I am only stating my observations. I certainly welcome any upgrades to the AI to make the game more challenging.

In answer to why to take a low percentage shot with an AFV in the AF segment? It's to set up that -1 acquisition in your next DF segment(provided you survive!) The thing I recommend is to take the shot with normal ammo, unless desperate, then use a specially ammo in the following segments when you do not have a movement penalty. The chance to break the gun is the same whether its a low percentage hit chance or a high percentage shot.

And a shout out to Rico! I love the use of Battle Front to illustrate fire and maneuver.

On a side note, would Tom Hanks been better served by Molotov cocktails than "sticky bombs" in Saving Private Ryan? (It always bugs me by how many times he has to go on about sticky bombs in the movie)

[UP844]

Rico's last work (Lenin's Sons), played with the Russians at Very Hard level. The scenario ended in a Minor Victory for the Russians (no way to take a B** leader with three SS squads and a MMG without an adequate number of "human resources" [:D].

This is a perfect case showing why the AI needs to be much more trigger-happy than now.

In the woods, the Russians easily repulsed the much larger SS/Engineer force because when the Germans advanced adjacent to the Russians, they took three fire phases before being able to reply (provided they survive, not a likely chance [:D]), i.e.:
Russian Defensive First Fire (doubled for range, with -1 DRM for moving target)
Russian Final Fire (halved for FF, doubled for range)
[No German advancing fire, which should have been a 1/2 FP, doubled for being adjacent, +1 FP per squad as both SS and Engineers have Assault Fire capability]
Russian Fire (doubled for range)

In the right, an inconclusive firefight between Russian Group A and German Group B went on for most of the game. A human player would have quickly dispatched the Russian MMG within a couple turns, adding the three SS squads to his fire and enhancing his chances by 20%.

The Russian light mortar on the right provided an alternative target for the German Group B and contributed to the survival of the Russian Group A [:D]. It sometimes managed to pin a squad, but never the MMG-armed one [:(].

[rico21]

To balance this scenario I had to remove the Russian Demolition Charges because any AI unit carrying DC does not fire on the enemy.[:(]

[Peter Fisla]

I continue to work on UPDATE5, someone mentioned that lone AI leaders don't do anything. Thanks for the feedback, I have now modified the AI code. A single AI Leader in a hex will now try to move to a stack of broken units without a leader, if there aren't any (within 12 hexes) then AI will leader will try to move any hex with AI personnel units without a leader.

Please continue to report on AI behavior, I'm looking for a noticeable obvious patterns that I can improve upon. I read all your feedback

See the challenge I have is this, the AI has to be able to handle any situation because the AI is not exactly scripted and the user can create any kind of map in the editor. I have now added special command when AI is on ADVANCE to only attack and hold a specific hex on the map (for UPDATE5). I know the AI is not perfect and I will try to make it better for the future. If the game maps were fixed then I could make the AI better but then users will get bored playing on the same maps over and over again. I also didn't want have AI too scripted as the scenario designer would have to spend a lot of time creating scenario.

Thanks for your support guys!

[rico21]

Enjoy all your efforts. Are aware of the difficulties encountered. Do not believe in miracles but in work and perseverance.

Possibly to make two variants for the same scenario, one for the AI in defense (Lenin's Sons), the other for the AI in attack (Lenin's Sons 2).

[UP844]

Peter, let me first thank you for your dedication to this game.

As anybody around here knows, the major issue with AI is its inability to fire other than at full effect: pinned units, moved units, units with targets at long range do not fire at all. This greatly reduces the amount of firepower the AI delivers at the human player units.

I understant that sometimes the AI has to decide whether firing or not (e.g. firing now or moving later in the Fire Segment or firing now or waiting for a better target in the Defensive Fire Segment). In the Defensive or Advancing Fire segments, however, the eligible units can only fire at the enemy with no consequences on their later actions, but most times the AI does not fire.

On a side note, I think that a more "trigger-happy" AI would also make life easier for scenario authors.

As for AI behaviour, I do not know if and how it is feasible, but would it be possible to set some "waypoints" (VP hexes with no VP values) so as to define one or more "advance routes" for the AI? Units could then be assigned to one or more paths during scenario creation and this can lead to interesting situations.

The usual AI advance route is "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" (red arrow in the map).

Let's suppose, however that we could assign an attack path to AI units: units assigned to the A-B path - by way of example - will make a wide left flank move before moving towards the VP hex; most forces are assigned to A-B and C-D path, the AI will attempt a double pincer attack.

Taking this one step further, if multiple paths can be defined the AI will become even more flexible: e.g., if half the units are assigned to "A-B" or "none" and the other half is assigned to "C-D" or "none", the AI could make moves ranging from its classic frontal attack to a single or double flanking move.

[Peter Fisla]

Alright, MMG/HMG long range fire has been implemented...see point #4 in my first post.

[fuselex]

haha , democracy at it`s best ,
Wearing down the opposition
this could be very interesting

[rico21]

[8D] [&o] [:D]