Assaulting Tank

[lhmg]

I was playing ASL scenario Morgan's Stand and when I tried to assault a Sherman tank the game froze and exited the program. Can infantry not assault tanks??

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: kodiak

I was playing ASL scenario Morgan's Stand and when I tried to assault a Sherman tank the game froze and exited the program. Can infantry not assault tanks??

Infantry can advance (only in Advance Segment) into a hex with enemy vehicle, though not during movement segment.

[DoubleDeuce]

Should be possible, iirc UP844 killed a KV-1 in one of my scenarios by Assaulting/CC it.

[UP844]

I confirm infantry can assault tanks. Sometimes this is the only way you have to deal with them, especially in the mid-war period (42-43), when ATRs become useless and shaped-charge weapons are not yet available.

To assault a tank in CC, the squad(s) and any accompanying leader must be adjacent to the tank at the start of the Advance Segment and then advance into the AFV hex. To succesfully complete the advance, the units must pass a Pre-AFV Attack Task Check (PAATC): if the check is failed, the units remain in the hex and become Pinned (the Pinned is removed in the subsequent Rally Segment).

I am not able to provide exact figures about the probability of destroying an AFV or seeing your attackers eliminated; according to my experience:
> in most cases (more than 50%) the AFV is destroyed, provided you attack with multiple squads. Do not rely on a single squad: to kill the KV-1 Double Deuce mentioned, I made the attempt with 4 squads and 2 leaders.
> engineers (not surprisingly [;)]) are more effective than regular infantry; the latter often needs 2 or more turns to kill an AFV
> leaders improve the kill chances;
> open-top AFV are much more vulnerable to CC;
> AFVs don't seem to be very dangerous for the attacking infantry, once the latter has entered CC; I have attacked in CC many types of vehicles, from T-26s to Panthers, and my infantry rarely suffered losses. The most dangerous moment comes when you have destroyed the AFV and your units remain in the open [;)]. For some reason, the AI does not like firing in the CC hex (I do [:D]), even though small arms fire is harmless (for the AFV).

I don't know:
> if entering CC with LATWs or engineer SW (DC, FT) increases the chances for success (I have never tried)
> if CE AFVs are more vulnerable to CC (the AI always goes around BU)

[genesismwt]

I don't like committing fratricide, but I will try to tie up an AFV with a squad, and put the tank in CC, and then later pull up behind with a tank shoot it a leisure.[:D]

[UP844]

I just did that in "Lehr Sanction" a couple days ago, entering CC with a Panther and then pumping 75mm AP rounds in its rear with a Sherman [:D]. The squad was unaffected, but they were Elite, and the game does not report if they had to make a MC.

[lhmg]

I was trying to move onto the tank from a stone building in the advance phase when it crashed. I will try it again.

[UP844]

I tried the same approach in the same scenario (and against the same Sherman, I suppose): the game didn't crash. I also unsuccessfully tried entering CC against a M8 HMC (the attacking squad was pinned) and the game didn't crash. Perhaps it was a momentary quirk of the game.

In the picture:

1: An elite HS (and a C* leader) in the lower hex, and a 2nd Line squad with a PF attempt entering CC with the Sherman. Both of them are in stone buildings.

2: The Elite HS and the leader fail their TC and are pinned; the 2nd Line squad is successful and enters CC with the tank. I have not fired the PF in the Advancing Segment to see if it has some noticeable effect in CC.

3: The Sherman has eliminated the attacking squad (yes, I know I recently wrote squads are likely to kill AFVs and escape. Maybe I was wrong [;)]).



@Peter: shouldn't the CC marker disappear once the opponent is eliminated? This one remained on top of the tank even in the subsequent American half-turn.

[Paullus]

The CC marker bug is fixed in the upcoming UPDATE1

[UP844]

Thanks for the info, Paullus: I must have missed it in the list of the bugs fixed in the upcoming patch.

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: UP844

I tried the same approach in the same scenario (and against the same Sherman, I suppose): the game didn't crash. I also unsuccessfully tried entering CC against a M8 HMC (the attacking squad was pinned) and the game didn't crash. Perhaps it was a momentary quirk of the game.

In the picture:

1: An elite HS (and a C* leader) in the lower hex, and a 2nd Line squad with a PF attempt entering CC with the Sherman. Both of them are in stone buildings.

2: The Elite HS and the leader fail their TC and are pinned; the 2nd Line squad is successful and enters CC with the tank. I have not fired the PF in the Advancing Segment to see if it has some noticeable effect in CC.

3: The Sherman has eliminated the attacking squad (yes, I know I recently wrote squads are likely to kill AFVs and escape. Maybe I was wrong [;)]).



@Peter: shouldn't the CC marker disappear once the opponent is eliminated? This one remained on top of the tank even in the subsequent American half-turn.

This issue is addressed in UPDATE1...

[UP844]

Another CC issue I noticed playing "The North Bank": I had a crew and a squad (both armed with a PIAT) that were locked in melee with a SS squad. When a King Tiger moved into a hex nearby I tried to fire the LATWs at it and - to my surprise - I succeeded (even though they missed ). When an infantry squad entered the same hex I attempted to fire with the squads, but this was not allowed (a window appeared stating "Units in MELEE cannot fire" or something like that).

In the lower left box, I noticed the squads have a <MELEE> indication in their line, but SW didn't have it. I don't know if this also happens with other SWs: I will make some experiment. If this bug has also been eliminated, disregard this report.

[lhmg]

I played the same scenario again and it worked fine this time. I actually destroyed the Sherman after about 3 rounds of melee as I also got a leader and two more squadds in eventually. [:D]