OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version

[Sammy5IsAlive]

A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth


Probably lots but that is the common tracking metric we have.

Yesterday new cases reported as follows:
Norway: 10
Denmark: 11
Sweden: 57
Germany: 298
U.S.: 55,442

Yes, the US has a lot more testing capabilities and are using them.

Testing is up 37% and infections are up 152% So more testing is not the problem. more infections is the problem. Infections are outpacing testing by a huge margin. 37% more testing should result in 37% more infections found if your theory is correct.

Deaths are staring to catch up with cases. Arizona and Louisiana are seeing district upticks, Texas reported a new record for deaths today. 12 states have record hospitalizations. Must be more testing causing record hospitalizations and deaths. Yup, testing is causing record death

Just to muddy the waters some more, it is not clear if all the deaths are being counted properly. Apparently in Houston, there has been a sudden increase in the number of emergency call cases where the ambulance paramedics find the victim already dead at home. Some of these were tested and proved to be COVID19 positive. This same thing happened during NYC's peak infections, people delayed too long seeking treatment.

Where it gets murky is that many states are getting their death data from hospitals and not counting those who never make it to hospital. This should be easy to fix by gathering the stats for out-of-hospital fatalities, but leaders don't want to do things that show how bad things really are. We all know what the "right thing" is for this situation, but so few seem to have the fortitude to do it.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Just to muddy the waters some more, it is not clear if all the deaths are being counted properly. Apparently in Houston, there has been a sudden increase in the number of emergency call cases where the ambulance paramedics find the victim already dead at home. Some of these were tested and proved to be COVID19 positive. This same thing happened during NYC's peak infections, people delayed too long seeking treatment.

Where it gets murky is that many states are getting their death data from hospitals and not counting those who never make it to hospital. This should be easy to fix by gathering the stats for out-of-hospital fatalities, but leaders don't want to do things that show how bad things really are. We all know what the "right thing" is for this situation, but so few seem to have the fortitude to do it.

That comes back to the whole issue of where you draw the line between somebody that dies 'with CV19' and somebody that dies 'of CV19'. I'll hold my hand up as somebody who is by nature cynical. I wouldn't be surprised if significant numbers of deaths aren't being counted in the CV19 figures as they are now being put down to the underlying health condition instead. That is just my speculation - we'll get a better idea as the excess deaths statistics become available.

[CaptBeefheart]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.

Sammy: Excellent analysis. That puts into words more or less what I've been thinking for a while now.

Cheers,
CB

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

EPA is committed to identifying new tools and providing accurate and up-to-date information to help the American public

Well, everyone already knows that Lysol works, so the EPA can be added to the list of official bodies that are really doing nothing to actually help the public.

It has been tested and it can now advertise it. How many "cleaners" don't actually disinfect?

Lysol products list the stuff that they disinfect. The list includes Coronavirus and this isn't new, it's been like that forlikever. I thought everybody knew but now I see not, so I guess the EPA did a service to you. The service they did was to read the label on Lysol products, lol.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.

I think it's about how you present the information and the logic. For America, we have a sharply divided political message with the Republican leaders giving one message and the Democrat leaders another. I believe that if the White House, on Day one, would have maintained a nation-wide message similar to what most of Europe, S. Korea, and Canada did, our infectious numbers would be lower right now.

I'm in California and most people, regardless of politics, are wearing masks. And for those people that walk around in the stores without a mask, they are mostly of the opinion that it's their "right" not to wear a mask. For those people that are wearing masks, the average opinion is that if we all wear masks we are protecting each other as well as ourselves since we *know* that any of us could have and be a super-spreader for a good week or so before feeling/showing any symptoms.

I believe that if we'd started the whole pandemic shelter-in-place and wear-a-mask message from a national we-are-all-in-this-together point of view we'd be good right now. Instead, with some counties following direction from our governor and other counties fighting the state directives, all we are doing is playing a shell game and trying to figure out which cup has the ball in it. And that's the same on a larger scale with some states trying to open slowly and other states being much less restrictive. Here in America, we are a divided house.

I'd say our local media is also not helping matters much as they flit like butterflies from one juicy story to the next while pandering to the drama and gossip by stoking comments from our different governors, Faucci, and Trump.

At this stage here in America, I'm not sure we can put the cat back into the bag.

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf
Man - this stuff just keeps on giving...
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/scientists-warn-of-potential-brain-damage-linked-to-covid-19

Yes, I have also reported this a couple times. Widespread confusion, impaired consciousness, uncoordinated muscle movements, altered mental state. Another recent local example:

Brain Damaged Baltimorons tear down Columbus statue, toss it into harbor

https://www.foxnews.com/us/baltimore-ri ... or-reports

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.

I think it's about how you present the information and the logic. For America, we have a sharply divided political message with the Republican leaders giving one message and the Democrat leaders another. I believe that if the White House, on Day one, would have maintained a nation-wide message similar to what most of Europe, S. Korea, and Canada did, our infectious numbers would be lower right now.

I'm in California and most people, regardless of politics, are wearing masks. And for those people that walk around in the stores without a mask, they are mostly of the opinion that it's their "right" not to wear a mask. For those people that are wearing masks, the average opinion is that if we all wear masks we are protecting each other as well as ourselves since we *know* that any of us could have and be a super-spreader for a good week or so before feeling/showing any symptoms.

I believe that if we'd started the whole pandemic shelter-in-place and wear-a-mask message from a national we-are-all-in-this-together point of view we'd be good right now. Instead, with some counties following direction from our governor and other counties fighting the state directives, all we are doing is playing a shell game and trying to figure out which cup has the ball in it. And that's the same on a larger scale with some states trying to open slowly and other states being much less restrictive. Here in America, we are a divided house.

I'd say our local media is also not helping matters much as they flit like butterflies from one juicy story to the next while pandering to the drama and gossip by stoking comments from our different governors, Faucci, and Trump.

At this stage here in America, I'm not sure we can put the cat back into the bag.

I seldom wear a mask. My eyeglasses fog up and I can't see. I see a lot of the people with masks but their nose is not covered. How good is that?

That said, there are no Covid-19 cases in my immediate area, the closest reported was over 30 kilometers away. I don't think that the virus will travel that far in large enough quantities to infect anybody. Also, those cloth as well as the paper masks really don't stop the virus.

At the risk of getting farther into the political that some are venturing into, Public Health in the US is a State and local responsibility. The Federal government can and has issued guidelines but it is not the Federal responsibility for Public Health. Go take US Civics classes if you need to understand this.

edit: Both my kitties like to go into bags on their own. One of them even like the ride when I swing it back and forth. But don't buy a pig in a poke or you will let the cat out of the bag.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Well, everyone already knows that Lysol works, so the EPA can be added to the list of official bodies that are really doing nothing to actually help the public.

It has been tested and it can now advertise it. How many "cleaners" don't actually disinfect?

Lysol products list the stuff that they disinfect. The list includes Coronavirus and this isn't new, it's been like that forlikever. I thought everybody knew but now I see not, so I guess the EPA did a service to you. The service they did was to read the label on Lysol products, lol.

But now they can LEGALLY state that it kills the corona virus that causes Covid-19, before they could not LEGALLY do so. Can you comprehend that now?[8|] Or do you have to take English comprehension all over again.

[RangerJoe]

I will now increase my Covid-19 protection level since the local newspaper has stated that there is a Covid-19 case in the immediate area. [:@] The person works at a production facility but it does not state where the person lives. I just saw it quickly but did not read the entire article as the paper was downstairs for someone else to pick up as it is theirs.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.

I think it's about how you present the information and the logic. For America, we have a sharply divided political message with the Republican leaders giving one message and the Democrat leaders another. I believe that if the White House, on Day one, would have maintained a nation-wide message similar to what most of Europe, S. Korea, and Canada did, our infectious numbers would be lower right now.

I'm in California and most people, regardless of politics, are wearing masks. And for those people that walk around in the stores without a mask, they are mostly of the opinion that it's their "right" not to wear a mask. For those people that are wearing masks, the average opinion is that if we all wear masks we are protecting each other as well as ourselves since we *know* that any of us could have and be a super-spreader for a good week or so before feeling/showing any symptoms.

I believe that if we'd started the whole pandemic shelter-in-place and wear-a-mask message from a national we-are-all-in-this-together point of view we'd be good right now. Instead, with some counties following direction from our governor and other counties fighting the state directives, all we are doing is playing a shell game and trying to figure out which cup has the ball in it. And that's the same on a larger scale with some states trying to open slowly and other states being much less restrictive. Here in America, we are a divided house.

I'd say our local media is also not helping matters much as they flit like butterflies from one juicy story to the next while pandering to the drama and gossip by stoking comments from our different governors, Faucci, and Trump.

At this stage here in America, I'm not sure we can put the cat back into the bag.

I seldom wear a mask. My eyeglasses fog up and I can't see. I see a lot of the people with masks but their nose is not covered. How good is that?

That said, there are no Covid-19 cases in my immediate area, the closest reported was over 30 kilometers away. I don't think that the virus will travel that far in large enough quantities to infect anybody. Also, those cloth as well as the paper masks really don't stop the virus.

At the risk of getting farther into the political that some are venturing into, Public Health in the US is a State and local responsibility. The Federal government can and has issued guidelines but it is not the Federal responsibility for Public Health. Go take US Civics classes if you need to understand this.

edit: Both my kitties like to go into bags on their own. One of them even like the ride when I swing it back and forth. But don't buy a pig in a poke or you will let the cat out of the bag.

Please don't take this as a slap or insult but I think you've made my point... <wry grin>

We all have different opinions and thoughts on the COVID. I work hard to keep that 6+ feet of separation. I carry a mask and when I'm in stores and such, I put the mask on. If someone chooses to not wear a mask correctly over their nose then there's not much I can do. The police, in my town, have publicly stated that they will not be arresting or issuing tickets to people if they are not wearing a mask. Stores and such can demand and post "face mask" requirements and as long as the information is posted, people can be arrested for trespassing if they refuse to leave when confronted by a peace officer.

But if specific COVID-19 prevention program was a nation-wide mandate, I believe that few people would buck the mandate if there was clear-cut evidence and the white house, congress, and state leadership were all in support of the directive.

So strongly do I feel about everyone wearing a mask and, when possible, practicing safe distancing, that for me when I see someone wandering around in a grocery store without a mask, I'd like to see them slapped with intent to threaten others with a bio-hazard.

Like I note above, I think America is a divided house in terms of COVID-19, and I believe that here in the states we will suffer due to the mixed message and lack of direction from our leaders.

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe



You are reporting known cases only. How many cases were there that resolved themselves that weren't known?

Probably lots but that is the common tracking metric we have.

Yesterday new cases reported as follows:
Norway: 10
Denmark: 11
Sweden: 57
Germany: 298
U.S.: 55,442

Yes, the US has a lot more testing capabilities and are using them.

I know that is what ur being told in the news in the US. Yes, the US has ramped up in test capacity but so have we over here. I live in Denmark. The county i live in has a population of 65000 and in random testing as there no one else to test in the last 2 weeks. 0 cases, i repeat 0 cases of any of the tests. Its 4 weeks since we had our last case in my county.

Yes, Denmark is divided. Jutland except up north where there was a recent outbreak that seems to have been contained, have next to no cases.
Zeeland and the capital the story isnt quite the same, there are still a few cases. Per JohnDillworths numbers. In each of the last 2 days of those tested positive there has been admitted 1 new case to hospitals in the entire country. If it was a case of just not testing people and we have a large hidden number of people infected. They would still get sick and some of those need hospitalization.

Yes, testing is ramping down and the random testing program was suspended a few days ago. In part because people have started stopping coming when called. So going foward clearly the US will surge ahead in overall testing, but there isnt much reason to have random testing in half of the country and Denmark are going to a policy of trace testing to contain any new outbreaks.

What is going to be "interesting" is the opening of the borders. What will happen then once ppl get home from vacations in southern europe.

[RangerJoe]

If there is going to be trace testing, use the Korean plan of having it in place before something happens so it can be debated, studied, tested, then modified as is necessary. I think that would be better than suddenly imposing a system that may not work. There have been other diseases with tests and contact information. Think of the test for Syphilis before people got married.

[RangerJoe]

Went shopping today. The big store that I went to has signs up requiring masks starting the 13th of July. A lot more customers were wearing masks today.

Then I ended up walking to the local DQ, which is about two miles. As I was walking along a road, a medium sized dog came over barking at me. When I turned to face it, it stopped coming towards me but it was in the middle of the road, blocking traffic. When I turned to keep walking, it would start to come towards me as if it was going to come behind me and hamstring me. I should have called the authorities but I did not. Next time, if I remember to, I will take a couple of pictures and then start taking video.

But the DQ was closed inside because of storm damage from last night. We had another one this morning. But no deep fried foods but a bacon cheeseburger with the salad toppings went down good for breakfast at 13:45 hours.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


I seldom wear a mask. My eyeglasses fog up and I can't see. I see a lot of the people with masks but their nose is not covered. How good is that?

I have glasses and no problem wearing the mask. You need a nose clip or built-in wire to bend around the nose bridge. That will keep the mask tight enough around the skin that little of the breath comes up on the glasses. A swimmer's nose clip might work.

[fcooke]

With my allergies I'm not sure clipping off my nose would work......unless the missus was trying to get rid of me. I used to love to scuba and snorkel but the allergies have pretty much killed that. The mask also makes breathing incredibly difficult. I honestly think people need to use common sense, otherwise we will all be walking around in space suits.

Not meant to be political.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


I seldom wear a mask. My eyeglasses fog up and I can't see. I see a lot of the people with masks but their nose is not covered. How good is that?

I have glasses and no problem wearing the mask. You need a nose clip or built-in wire to bend around the nose bridge. That will keep the mask tight enough around the skin that little of the breath comes up on the glasses. A swimmer's nose clip might work.

Yes, a couple of those masks had the built in wire to help make a better seal. I want to make sure that those are on the masks before I pay over a dollar apiece for one.

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It has been tested and it can now advertise it. How many "cleaners" don't actually disinfect?

Lysol products list the stuff that they disinfect. The list includes Coronavirus and this isn't new, it's been like that forlikever. I thought everybody knew but now I see not, so I guess the EPA did a service to you. The service they did was to read the label on Lysol products, lol.

But now they can LEGALLY state that it kills the corona virus that causes Covid-19, before they could not LEGALLY do so. Can you comprehend that now?[8|] Or do you have to take English comprehension all over again.

Ah it's a LEGAL thing. You are correct that I did not comprehend that. I must re-read your post to see where it refers to a LEGAL issue:

EPA approves use of Lysol surface disinfectant products against COVID-19
The agency said laboratory testing showed they were effective against COVID-19

quote:

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced Monday that it has approved the first two surface disinfectant products, both made by Lysol, against the novel coronavirus.

The products - Lysol Disinfectant Spray and Lysol Disinfectant Max Cover Mist -- were approved by the agency based on laboratory testing that showed they were "effective against" COVID-19, according to a statement by the EPA. Under no circumstance should the disinfectant products be administered into the human body.

“EPA is committed to identifying new tools and providing accurate and up-to-date information to help the American public protect themselves and their families from the novel coronavirus,” said EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler. “EPA's review of products tested against this virus marks an important milestone in President Trump’s all of government approach to fighting the spread of COVID-19."

https://www.foxnews.com/health/epa-appr ... oronavirus


Oops - nothing LEGAL there, maybe you are mistaken, again. But the point really isn't how wrong you often are, it is that organizations are constantly given huge sums of money for virtually nothing. A survey to provide helpful hints to citizens on how to stay warm in winter, including such glimmers of brilliance as 'were a sweater'; grants to labs to tell us how to prevent the spread of corona-virus' by staying 6 feet from others and to wash our hands; and now you have proudly reported the EPA's great success in discovering that Lysol is effective against corona-virus [hint for those that don't own a sweater, read the label on your Lysol product].

What really needs defunding is our fat and wasteful government and our corrupt politicians. Six months into this pandemic disaster and the best our tax dollars can get is the same old 'wear a mask' and a new product approval apparently based on reading a label. I wonder how much we paid for that little pellet of wisdom from the EPA Pez dispenser.

[sPzAbt653]

With my allergies I'm not sure clipping off my nose would work

Not to clip off your nose, lol, just to reduce or eliminate the space between the mask and your nose. I wear glasses and have the same fogging issues, but I've also worn N-95's for years because of my job and I am used to it. Currently I don't use my N-95's in general use because the virus shouldn't be that thick in a store or restaurant. I wear a cotton mask with a pipe cleaner bridge support when I need to look official, and when I go to a store or restaurant I wear a folded bandana. As soon as I am outside I am mask free. Either way there is always some fogging [especially in winter] and difficulty breathing, but you won't catch me driving or jogging with a mask on [what is wrong with people?] [:)]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Lysol products list the stuff that they disinfect. The list includes Coronavirus and this isn't new, it's been like that forlikever. I thought everybody knew but now I see not, so I guess the EPA did a service to you. The service they did was to read the label on Lysol products, lol.

But now they can LEGALLY state that it kills the corona virus that causes Covid-19, before they could not LEGALLY do so. Can you comprehend that now?[8|] Or do you have to take English comprehension all over again.

Ah it's a LEGAL thing. You are correct that I did not comprehend that. I must re-read your post to see where it refers to a LEGAL issue:

EPA approves use of Lysol surface disinfectant products against COVID-19
The agency said laboratory testing showed they were effective against COVID-19

quote:

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced Monday that it has approved the first two surface disinfectant products, both made by Lysol, against the novel coronavirus.

The products - Lysol Disinfectant Spray and Lysol Disinfectant Max Cover Mist -- were approved by the agency based on laboratory testing that showed they were "effective against" COVID-19, according to a statement by the EPA. Under no circumstance should the disinfectant products be administered into the human body.

“EPA is committed to identifying new tools and providing accurate and up-to-date information to help the American public protect themselves and their families from the novel coronavirus,” said EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler. “EPA's review of products tested against this virus marks an important milestone in President Trump’s all of government approach to fighting the spread of COVID-19."

https://www.foxnews.com/health/epa-appr ... oronavirus


Oops - nothing LEGAL there, maybe you are mistaken, again. But the point really isn't how wrong you often are, it is that organizations are constantly given huge sums of money for virtually nothing. A survey to provide helpful hints to citizens on how to stay warm in winter, including such glimmers of brilliance as 'were a sweater'; grants to labs to tell us how to prevent the spread of corona-virus' by staying 6 feet from others and to wash our hands; and now you have proudly reported the EPA's great success in discovering that Lysol is effective against corona-virus [hint for those that don't own a sweater, read the label on your Lysol product].

What really needs defunding is our fat and wasteful government and our corrupt politicians. Six months into this pandemic disaster and the best our tax dollars can get is the same old 'wear a mask' and a new product approval apparently based on reading a label. I wonder how much we paid for that little pellet of wisdom from the EPA Pez dispenser.

If you would have bothered to click on the link and read the entire article instead of just the part that I quoted, you would have seen this:

Before pesticide products can legally claim they kill a pathogen similar to SARS-CoV-2, they must be authorized by the EPA based on a review of data.

"The EPA's approval recognizes that using Lysol Disinfectant Spray can help to prevent the spread of COVID-19 on hard, non-porous surfaces," said Rahul Kadyan, EVP NA Hygiene for Reckitt Benckiser, Lysol's parent company.

There is more to the article but I doubt if you will want to read it since it does not contribute to your anti-government political diatribe.