OT: Russian Warship Collision

[BBfanboy]

It appears the USN isn't the only navy to suffer the misfortune of collision with commercial ships ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ship ... SKCN26E1UI

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It appears the USN isn't the only navy to suffer the misfortune of collision with commercial ships ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ship ... SKCN26E1UI

Bumper ships! [:D]

But how does Switzerland build and launch merchant ships? I don't think that the river there are really large enough to send large merchant ships down them.

[fcooke]

A little odd. Why would a small ASW ship need to be in Danish waters (assuming the article has its facts straight).

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: fcooke

A little odd. Why would a small ASW ship need to be in Danish waters (assuming the article has its facts straight).

Could have been transiting to the Atlantic. Not sure if the Skagerrak and Kattegat are considered international or Danish/Norwegian waters.
But most likely, the Russians had some other excuse like a port visit so that they could gather intel on NATO strength/activities in the area. I base this on the way they have used subs to probe into Norwegian and Swedish waters, and sometimes got caught.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It appears the USN isn't the only navy to suffer the misfortune of collision with commercial ships ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ship ... SKCN26E1UI

Bumper ships! [:D]

But how does Switzerland build and launch merchant ships? I don't think that the river there are really large enough to send large merchant ships down them.

Switzerland only needed to build the flag it carries and collect the licensing fee for using it.

[GetAssista]

Russians collided with Swiss ship you say? I smell some money laundering scheme [:D]

[Walloc]

Its common for Russian warships to transit Danish waters. Any transferes between the Baltic fleet and Northern Fleet by default will hafta transit danish waters. For what ever reason training, repairs, transferes, visiting for fleet day(around this day there usually an increased number) and more nefarious reason if you want to go down that path. Theoriticly they could use the Kieler kanal, but i dont think its ever used. I doubt the russians want ships in so constricted waters. This is some thing that happens several times a month on average with danish authorization and russian notification. Usually they transit the Great Belt, but smaller ships can go through Øresund. As mentioned in this article there was severly limited visibility in Øresund this morning. Fog limiting the visibility to between 20m to 50m according to DK newspapers.

Kind regards,
Rasmus

[fcooke]

Thanks for that info. It seems like the USN and the Russians don't know how to use radar.

[RangerJoe]

It was at a bridge so there would have been interference with radar.

[Walloc]

https://politiken.dk/indland/art7935727 ... sundsbroen

Map with location of the incident. I doubt it had any thing to do with interference from the bridge. Thats 10-15km from the bridge.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Walloc

https://politiken.dk/indland/art7935727 ... sundsbroen

Map with location of the incident. I doubt it had any thing to do with interference from the bridge. Thats 10-15km from the bridge.

I don't read Danish. But this is what the original article stated with no actual distance:

A Russian navy vessel collided with a Swiss-owned container ship in Danish waters on Wednesday near the Oresund Bridge linking Denmark and Sweden, Danish defence authorities told Reuters.

The article that you posted with the map does not have any kind of distance legend on it. I have not yet been in that area so I don't know the distances personally.

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
The article that you posted with the map does not have any kind of distance legend on it. I have not yet been in that area so I don't know the distances personally.

No, but i have been. My father lives on the DK side of the bridge and my younger brother lives on the Swedish side of the bridge. So you will either have to trust me or not. Thats 10-15km.
Legend on google earth said 11,98 km to roughly that area. Toke me 15 secs or so to check.

[Orm]

Sweden just objected to Russian intrusions into Swedish air space, and Swedish waters. And recent Russia exercises near Gotland has caused Sweden to send reinforcements to the area.

With that said it is more common that Danish, or US, intrude into Swedish air space. Although when the Russians do it they are often very aggressive.

A few years ago the Russian air force simulated nuclear air strikes against Sweden (twice if I recall correctly).

6 years ago.
https://www.vice.com/sv/article/dpwk4q/ ... -territory

And more recent (posted a couple of weeks ago).
Sweden Raises Alarm over Russian Military Exercises
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKfIAc-EV4Q

Some time ago this picture was leaked. It was taken from a Swedish signal intelligence plane flying well inside Swedish air space.

[Fishbed]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Some time ago this picture was leaked. It was taken from a Swedish signal intelligence plane flying well inside Swedish air space.

Perhaps we might want to be careful about the sort of info we spread. This was taken in international airspace (unless the reports I have read were wrong). This Su-27 didn't intrude into Swedish air space, nor was the Swedish plane inside Russian air space of course.

Doesn't make the Su-27's intimidation legal or acceptable of course, just saying we have a fighter playing with its food on a plane that is obviously collecting SIGINT, perhaps in the vicinity of Kaliningrad. And when we say "international airspace", in reality it simply means anything beyond 12 nautical miles, which means that spy planes might very well fly less than 30 klicks from the coastline they monitor - and know very well that it's a dangerous game that is played both ways (sometimes tragically if we take the US Orion Hainan incident in 2001 as an example). It's been decades, that's what these guys are paid for - on both sides of the aisle.

The Russians enjoy scaring these intel teams with gross intimidation (not switching on transponders, flying in a dangerous way). The Swedish complain, call it provocative but never take actual action, because obviously the plane ain't sightseeing (although obviously the Swedes having found pieces of Russian naval equipment, sometimes whole, along their coast, are well-aware of how this sort of intel gathering activity feels to the monitored side). Part of the deal, until something stupid happens.

[Walloc]

Agreeing with both posters here. You should be carefull about the info you spread, but the experience from the Danish air force and cooperating NATO air assets. Is that training in the Baltic in international airspace you have seen a change in russian behaviour in the last 5-10 years.

Just a month ago a Su 27 violated danish airspace and followed a B-52 strait across the island of Bornholm. This isnt normal.

https://ac.nato.int/archive/2020/russia ... olm-island


The behavior of the russian fleet seems to have a less threating posture. One could think that the russian fleets knows its depency of being allowed to transit danish waters so no need to risk that. Last year a Typhoon class sub transited danish waters both ways going and leaving the Russian navy day parades in St Petersburg and was trailed in danish waters by a danish patrol boat. Not a pep from the russians about that.

[fcooke]

Maybe the next time the Swedes or Danes catch a sub in their waters they should just go on and sink it, instead of being polite. I guess Norway as well.

[Alpha77]

"a new level of Russian provocative behavior." from link...

When Russians do it, it is provocative, if US/Nato do it it´s ok I guess...(and they have done "intel flights" close to Russian borders since the 60ties sometimes also veering into the airspace itself, also remember U2s right OVER their lands)

These flights by Russian fighters (if reports are correct) might also show a newer, more agressive (=also better trained) air force. Of course they now also have the planes to do it, older designs were too shortlegged and not the best radar/avionics (compared to Nato)

Eg. I have a video about (west) German F4s using (east) German Mig21 as "target practice" meaning getting behind them. The incident was over the Ostsee, I do not know to which side the waters belonged. It was even hailed by Nato as sign how much better their pilots are if F4 can get behind Migs them pilots being quite passive..

[fcooke]

I am mostly a student of WW2, but do not recall a Western nation taking out a civilian airliner - Korean Airlines 007 comes to mind. And if anything I have read is correct, Russia is getting way more aggressive with its AF. Buzzing USN ships and planes in a fairly dramatic way. China too. Though that P3 from a decade or so ago is likely to be the only patrol craft to have taken down a fighter since WW2. Though in an unconventional way.

[RangerJoe]

You may not heard about them, but the US did lose aircraft to the USSR after WWII. Not just the U2 with Francis Gary Powers.

[fcooke]

But I think military, not civvies? I know an RB-47 got taken out.