Subs in Manila and a couple of other questions

[jc4751]

I've played a couple of campaign games as the Allies for about four or so months into the war, mostly just learning how the game works and so on. I've noticed that if I'm using AI sub ops, subs will gather in Manila, which leads to the unfortunate event of some of them getting sunk for no good reason. Is it possible to keep this from happening outside of turning off sub ops and just manually keeping them out of the area? Some way to close the port or mark it off limits for naval traffic?

Second, if you're manually managing subs, what is the optimal way to do this? I'm assuming that having them patrol in shipping lanes is the way to go, but do you have to do anything special in terms of optimizing their patrols in an area?

Last, if a task force is assigned to ASW, does it patrol only its own assigned hex or does it cover more space than that? It seems like it would be limiting if it stayed in only one spot.

Thanks!

[ITAKLinus]

I have no idea regarding AI sub ops since I've never done or seen it.


There are billions of threads about sub operations, one is of few days ago. I post the link just as a reference: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4955637



ASW patrol works as a patrol: ships move along the patrol area using your designated waypoints. So, if you set Waypoint A and Waypoint B 5 hexes far from the A, you have that the ship effectively does patrol between A and B, hexes between them included since there is no teleport [:D].

[RhinoDad]

When I manually control subs I station groups of them in three or so ports a bit out of the action. Each port handles the area closest to it that I wish to patrol. Make sure proper support ships such as AS, AG, AKE are present. Ports may shift over will time due to enemy action/advance/withdrawal i.e. Midway, Pearl Harbour, Dutch Harbour(base in Aleutian Islands), Soerabaja, Batavia Darwin, Townsville, Suva, etc. You want them far enough back that they are not pounded by enemy air, but close enough to not use unnecessary fuel and time traveling to and from.

Patrol areas are based on where I believe will be paths for invasion/action and fuel/oil/supply/resource locations to Home Islands will pass. If can be avoided shallow areas where your subs will be more vulnerable. Bottlenecks are good areas to set up patrols. i.e. Both sides of Formosa, between Borneo and Celebes, Just south of Mindanao island. Also off home islands near Nagasaki, Osaka, Shizuoka, Yokahama, etc. You just have to surmise where ships are and where they will be headed; where Fuel/Oil/Supplies are where they need to be shipped. For islands, strategic locations, port/airfield size can be a good indicator of where to start looking. Also you can read the various reports to see active areas.

Try to make sure that surmised paths will pass through at least two patrol zones.

Keep sub patrol a hex or two from a base of any size to limit it being spotted, which lowers its efficiency.

Keep the patrol area quite small and use a second patrol if necessary. If the patrol area is good you should get plenty of bites in just a few hexes.

The sub will patrol what you tell it to do, sometimes chasing and attacking a convoy. Then return to port refuel, rearm and head back out. If you work it right then you can somewhat time patrols so that about the time one is finished another one is just arriving requiring less hands on monitoring. Though this is not optimal; depends on how optimal you are wishing to play.

During turn I note sightings and sub attacks and note where they are and/or which patrol to keep track of shifting supply routes. An active area often a better one. Also gives idea of when to send out relieve sub patrol. You will want to check the subs for remaining endurance/torps so you have new sub arriving on scene before present one needs to return to rearm.

I note patrol hexes, location, sub name, when left port, when arrived location, days on patrol before heading back, rough number of ship sightings and attacks. Keep it on paper, chalk board, etc. This gives me a quick idea of what patrols are yielding results, which are not. What aproximate rotation schedule is needed.

Check subs for damage periodically so they can be sent for repairs/yard when needed.

Keep plenty of reserves for patrol rotation. About 1/3 of mine are out on patrol, 1/3 in transit, 1/3 being rearmed or repair.

Focus on key areas

Edit:
As ITAKLinus states there are a number of posts, some quite old that cover this in detail. Sometime a Google search works better to root out posts than the forum search. Like him I also do not use AI Sub. After a few short tries and not satisfied I switched to manual and never looked back.

Here is another Allied Submarines

[rustysi]

I've noticed that if I'm using AI sub ops

Short answer, don't use auto ops for subs. If you don't want it screwed up, learn to do it yourself. Once you get the hang of it its not very demanding.

[spence]

Short answer, don't use auto ops for subs. If you don't want it screwed up, learn to do it yourself. Once you get the hang of it its not very demanding.

+1 Computer input in any and all operations is counterproductive and that applies no matter which side you take.

[Sardaukar]

For those wanting to use Aleuts as sub base, Dutch Harbor is not ideal. It can only be built to AF:3 Port:6.

Adak I. is more exposed, but can be built to AF:7 Port:8. With couple of AS, AR and ARD (latter not available in all scens, it's floating dock), it becomes quite potent. And heavily damaged SS can be sent to Seattle repair yard.

With former you'll struggle to base enough fighters to deter serious Kido Butai visit. with Adak fully built, no such problem.

Both are West Coast HQ bases, so ideal for air units that are permanently restricted to West Coast (or just restricted, so no need to pay PP).

[RangerJoe]

Prince Rupert has a shipyard and it might be better for the subs to go there than sending damaged subs to Seattle.

[Ambassador]

Prince Rupert is indeed more than sufficient, at size 10, and much closer. Developing Prince Rupert is one of the key part of a northern strategy, in fact, given the proximity to the theater and the railway connecting PR to the rest of West Coast.

Whether ASW or sub patrol, the key part is detection of the enemy TF, as submarines and ships can’t detect targets in adjacent hexes. Planes are thus important, as well as understanding how DL/MDL work.
In addition, as I’ve learned a couple months ago, ASW TF don’t react to submarines, so you really have to direct them yourself on the patrol areas ; the message that an ASW TF is reacting to a sub is misleading, as it is not a reaction.

For sub patrols, try to use three-point patrols, and you may set them to linger one day in some of the points, when the enemy air search is not too intense. Beware of shallow sea hexes, subs get easily killed.

I +999999 the advice not to allow computer input.[;)]