Proposal for New Players

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo
Erik there is already FAQ thread in the War Room
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

Thanks, that also looks quite helpful but it sounds like it could use updating? If there's nothing fully up to date, would anyone be willing to update the two first links into a new combined thread?

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Spanno
There is also WITPAE A forum squeeze that is available on the forums, that collates some useful forum posts.

Do you have a link for that?

[OnWargaming]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Do you have a link for that?

Hi Erik,

not a forum direct link but inside you can find an external one (5th post, I think some things are outdated in this document).
Moreover you can find very useful screenshots by Korvar as well (same thread).

I would add every Alfred's 101 guide.

Do you think it will be ever possible to have an updated manual like WitE?

Commercial proposal: what about a WitP:AE for Dummies?
You have to spend lot of time finding useful informations about the game spread over thousands thread and not all of them are accurate. Also tons of infos are included in the AAR (I have skimmed some of them and there are pretty good advices about strategy and production).
If you can "hire" a veteran with several games under his belt that can produce a meaningfull guide could be an instant buy for lot of people.

Just my 2 cents being a newbie myself.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: AtParmentier

The FAQ has some wrong statements (slightly outdated).

It's a starting point. Just correct the inaccuracies nowever the main problem in all this is the manual. If this was updated with detailed info instead of sketchy outlines on how stuff worked none of the FAQ would be needed.

[Maallon]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Maallon

Thats a great idea.
I found the following thread very helpful when I started out with the game:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2576157

Though some of the info are outdated, for example as far as I know the wiki mentioned there never really came to materialize properly.
But otherwise a lot of great stuff.

This looks great - it was last updated in 2015 though, is it still up to date with the current state of the game?

The majority of the content should not be out of date(someone please correct me if I am wrong).
But the FAQ is also linked there that, as mentioned, does contain some outdated information.
Otherwise the most important guides and AARs are linked in there that should help a lot in starting out with the game.
I would say it is the best we currently have without making a complete new thread.
And a new thread would probably in large part be a copy of that one.

[littleike]

I made the forum squeeze many years ago.
I posted it under the netwargaming forum (here the link)


https://www.netwargamingitalia.net/foru ... load_count

I see now in the download section that it has reached near 5.000 downloads
so i am glad if it has been of help for someone.

But the document is outdated and many informations could be inaccurate or even wrong.

Anyway if you think that some sort of collection could be of help for new players use it.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming
Do you think it will be ever possible to have an updated manual like WitE?

It's certainly possible, but only likely if WITP:AE were to be updated or re-developed, or if a community member were interested in doing this as a volunteer project.

Commercial proposal: what about a WitP:AE for Dummies?
You have to spend lot of time finding useful informations about the game spread over thousands thread and not all of them are accurate. Also tons of infos are included in the AAR (I have skimmed some of them and there are pretty good advices about strategy and production).
If you can "hire" a veteran with several games under his belt that can produce a meaningfull guide could be an instant buy for lot of people.

I'd be willing to compensate for this if a community veteran is willing to step forward and take on such a project, to have a consolidated and up to date guide for beginners for WITP-AE.

Regards,

- Erik

[Trugrit]

I took a look at that about a year ago.

My idea was to annotate the manual and combine it with an illustrated
player guide using a widescreen layout.

This allows the errors in the existing manual to be be corrected without altering
the existing manual and then the manual pages and the illustrated guide can arranged side by side.

There are significant challenges to this.

First, there is not another game that I have found that has the complexity when you get
under the skin that this game has. That complexity comes in multiple layers with the difficult
mechanics first, then the way the UI works and followed by the intricate details of
the Japanese economy and production. Then the tactical complexities which you certainly
want to cover in a player guide.

Almost every screen in the game has multiple options available and you are going to
also cover the Flyouts. That is a lot of information even before tactical considerations.

Second, I don’t think one player can do the entire thing. You need a small team.
You need multiple players to edit and advise.

The graphics are not simple but they can be handled.
I could handle that with another player just using my simple tools.

As an example I’ve attached a screenshot of a carrier raid that covers the planning and then
Illustrates the raid all the way step by step. There is a lot there but it still does not cover everything.

If I were going to do this and assemble a small team I would take
Kull, Mike Solli, PaxMondo to start; and then tap select other forum members as it develops.

And of course Alfred. Essential.

But…....The biggest obstacle is the majority of new players won’t read it.
They don’t study the documentation that exists now.

You can tell by their questions that they are not reading anything.
The are not reading the manual. Many can’t even find the manual.

That is just a three step process:
1. I just downloaded the game from Matrix but I don’t have a manual.
2. Matrix would not sell me a digital game without a manual.
3. Maybe I should look in the game files.

Nope, don’t want to do that. I’ll just jump on the forum and ask.
Forum: Why don’t you look in the game files.

Player guide…..A lot of work for very small return.

[Erik Rutins]

A key goal in doing this is that if there is a single location or guide to direct new players to, then saying "Read the Fine Manual" wouldn't mean "Also read these 50 threads and 100 AARs". There's no way to really make this a small learning curve, but it can be a less confusing or scattered curve.

An updated guide such as you describe could also be included in a re-master and featured on the game launcher.

Regards,

- Erik

[Maallon]

Oh wow, that looks awesome Trugrit [&o]

While in my comparative short time here I have also seen my fair share of people who can't even find the current existing manual (or just outright refuse to read it), I would still argue that people who actually want to master the game and ultimately stick with it will benefit a lot from such an illustrated guide.

You can't teach people who refuse to learn, but for those who want to learn, something like that would be huge help.

[BBfanboy]

I agree that Trugrit's idea is beautiful - the graphic he posted tells a story without getting into the clicks needed to duplicate it. I think today's young players, raised on sites that offer near instant gratification would still read something that comes across as a graphic novel.

Old timers who learned by reading and trying to follow along in the game may find this approach sort of juvenile, but it is not our young players fault they are not conditioned to learn the way we did. Gotta meet the customer where they is, not try to coax them into our way of doing things.

[Erik Rutins]

This is where the previously mentioned videos can be quite helpful, but if errors exist in them then a guide or updated manual to allow further correction/refinement of play for those who have come to WITP-AE through the videos would be the next step. For a game as advanced as this one, you can't expect to climb the learning curve without putting in a lot of effort and some will quite because of that but it would be much better if the directions to the next summit, so to speak, were as clear as possible for new community members.

[Kull]

It's hard for many of us to remember, but the "learning cliff" for this game is extraordinarily steep. Even as an experienced WitP player, for about six months I had no idea how to get started on the "Day 2" Turn of the Grand Campaign (the the genesis of the "Allied Set-up" spreadsheet, lol). And most of the smaller scenarios weren't much help because they seemed to assume a firm understanding of how to navigate the interface and handle the full array of land, air, and naval combat options. Only the Aleutians was narrow enough in scope that I could pick just one portion - naval ops - and figure out most of those requirements.

Which suggests a "path forward" here. What's might work for new players are a number of tutorial-like TINY scenarios which focus on a single aspect of the game, rather than the full spectrum of requirements. In combination with a document like the example posted by Trugrit (which points the player directly to the relevant sections of the manual), that offers a stairstep approach instead of the current "drinking from a firehose" situation.

And how would those scenarios be developed? Well, there are quite a few active modders present in the community, and if each would volunteer to create even one of these narrowly focused scenarios, they could be developed more or less in parallel, and without overwhelming one or two individuals with a giant task.

[OnWargaming]

@Trugrit: I don't think the biggest obstacle is the reader but the presentation, infographics are the best way to learn lot of infos without reading tons of pages and your screen is a great example.
Of course at some point you have to be more detailed (like the Alfred's guides) but this is the second step for a newbie, the first step is learning the basic.

"Player guide…..A lot of work for very small return." Indeed, even if paid would be a labor of love anyway.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

A key goal in doing this is that if there is a single location or guide to direct new players to, then saying "Read the Fine Manual" wouldn't mean "Also read these 50 threads and 100 AARs". There's no way to really make this a small learning curve, but it can be a less confusing or scattered curve.

An updated guide such as you describe could also be included in a re-master and featured on the game launcher.

Regards,

- Erik

+1
I am putting lot of effort into learning just the basic for my upcoming campaign game as Japanese, I played a couple of months lot of years ago and I would pay good money for a updated guide about the main topics!

[Moltrey]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

This is where the previously mentioned videos can be quite helpful, but if errors exist in them then a guide or updated manual to allow further correction/refinement of play for those who have come to WITP-AE through the videos would be the next step. For a game as advanced as this one, you can't expect to climb the learning curve without putting in a lot of effort and some will quite because of that but it would be much better if the directions to the next summit, so to speak, were as clear as possible for new community members.

Erik:

I would just like to take a moment to say "THANKS!" to you for taking time to actively participate in WITP:AE. I have been used to seeing AndyMac around periodically, and was floored to see Andrew Brown take the map updates "bull" by the horns and both elicit community feedback and turn out multiple versions of both standard and extended maps. HUZZAH!

I must say, a year or so ago, I was afraid that very little if any direct Dev support was going to be realized on WITP:AE as it is such an old title. You can imagine my great surprise at this flurry of positive activity and commitment.

So... thanks. More than you can know I believe. There are a LOT of passionate guys here who really treasure this game. Perhaps that is why we get rather outspoken about things around here. I don't want to speak for the others, but I am impressed that you and the team are active once again.
Woot!

[OnWargaming]

ORIGINAL: littleike

I made the forum squeeze many years ago.
I posted it under the netwargaming forum (here the link)


https://www.netwargamingitalia.net/foru ... load_count

I see now in the download section that it has reached near 5.000 downloads
so i am glad if it has been of help for someone.

But the document is outdated and many informations could be inaccurate or even wrong.

Anyway if you think that some sort of collection could be of help for new players use it.

Can be outdated but still a great resource for new players.
Grande!!

[RangerJoe]

This is a link for a new player who was advised to start with the Coral Sea campaign and then move on to the Guadalcanal campaign. He did do both several times:

My first go at this game, very enjoyable!

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4935973

That is also where I got the idea to make an "OT: Some Recipes" thread and post some recipes there.

[Zovs]

All the chatting over here has inspired me to reinstall this game again. Just going to start with the stock install and follow the tech support page for installation from true grit and use the sea bee thing.

Most of the original manuals should still be valid?

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

All the chatting over here has inspired me to reinstall this game again. Just going to start with the stock install and follow the tech support page for installation from true grit and use the sea bee thing.

Most of the original manuals should still be valid?

Check the patch notes . . .

[ggeilman]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I refer people to both of those threads and suggest that they go through them but they also need to look through the patch notes.

I also refer some people to some AARs so they can read what other people do, especially if there is discussion among players as to the best course to take. But always, play the game that you want to play.

I do not refer people to any videos.

Someone had been working on a new manual but discontinued that project.

What’s the problem with Dojo’s tutorial series for this or other GG games? He weaves mechanics with strategy where you can follow along and repeat the process. Doing yourself is best. He creates excitement for the games.

He also points out great map, Sea Bee Configurator, Kulls XLS.

Even if Matrix had budget they could not buy better. And Matrix has no budget.

His LPs are a waste of time he wastes half a video on greeting his fans on twitch.

After Arumba for Paradox, he is one of the best.

As a new player with eyesight issues, I am deeply grateful for Dojo's videos and wish others would make some also. It is difficult for me to read a great deal online due to having Sjogren's. The ideas mentioned for a players guide are a great idea having been involved helping make one or two over the years for RPGs.