Detailed wiki about Type 91 aerial torpedo

[Dili]

Yes they did, they sunk Roma with two and damaged Littorio, there is also the famous photo of hit on CL USS Savannah

I didn't contest that the solution was the missile. The Kamikaze is a missile with human guidance that Japanese culture made possible due to lack of technical guidance, the Italians itself reached same conclusion in 1942 43 when torpedo bombers started to get increased causalities due to better AA fire that they were developing an hack called Aeronautica Lombarda that was a piston aircraft that take off with a pilot he would jump after being in level flight and the it will be radio controlled from then on.

woldson when you have an overmatch of aircraft against a surface target you can do anything. A well trained torpedo squadron able to attack from different trajectories simultaneously without air opposition also would make short work damage a battleship even one with AA from 44 or 45.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: General Patton

I believe the Germans used a few guided missiles off Sicily with some success....GP

Edit. Or maybe it was Anzio.

Was it Salerno? At least that's what I recall.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Yes they did, they sunk Roma with two and damaged Littorio, there is also the famous photo of hit on CL USS Savannah

I didn't contest that the solution was the missile. The Kamikaze is a missile with human guidance that Japanese culture made possible due to lack of technical guidance, the Italians itself reached same conclusion in 1942 43 when torpedo bombers started to get increased causalities due to better AA fire that they were developing an hack called Aeronautica Lombarda that was a piston aircraft that take off with a pilot he would jump after being in level flight and the it will be radio controlled from then on.

woldson when you have an overmatch of aircraft against a surface target you can do anything. A well trained torpedo squadron able to attack from different trajectories simultaneously without air opposition also would make short work damage a battleship even one with AA from 44 or 45.

BB Warspite was also hit around the same period.

The Germans specifically went after Savannah because her shells had broken up a panzer attack that nearly drove the allies back to the beaches. Savannah was lucky - the Fritz-X went through the top of the turret and out the side of the ship before exploding in the water. A few feet the other way and the magazine would have gone up.

[Dili]

Yes Savannah was saved by the over-match, if she was more armored could have broken in 2. Something that happens often with tanks and APC's and heat charges. M113 was famous or infamous of its nimble aluminum armor that projectile can go from one to the other so easily that don't explode inside like if was a tank. So the only damage is exclusively to those in the path. There are also several instances of BB rounds going through destroyers and not detonating.

[Puhis]

Speaking of late war successful torpedo attacks, there's DD Twiggs.

On 16 June, Twiggs was on radar picket duty off Senaga Shima in the western fire support area At 2030, a single, low-flying plane dropped a torpedo which hit Twiggs on her port side, exploding her number 2 magazine. The plane then circled and completed its kamikaze mission in a suicide crash. The explosion enveloped the destroyer in flame; and, within an hour, she sank.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Twiggs_(DD-591)

It seems that kamikaze attack was pointless. Surely magazine explosion would have sunk the ship anyway?

[Dili]

Depends if the magazine is full or not.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Even if the torpedo attack was successful, Kamikazes were not expected to return. the pilot's choices were to either hit it again or to find another target for immolation

[desicat]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

The part that puzzled me was saying the torpedoes were obsolete, even though they were more effective than ever. The fact that it was dangerous to use them did not make them obsolete, just risky.

And there were successful torpedo strikes in late war. In Oct. 1944 TF38 swept Formosa to clear the way for accelerated landings on the Philippines. During the air battles Japanese torpedo bombers scored one hit on CA Canberra II and two hits on CL Houston. Houston very nearly sank, as the picture on this book cover shows ....

They were becoming obsolete. Obsolete weapons sometimes succeed.

By the end of the war, only three navies had any large ships, and they were allies: the UK, France, and the US. Rockets carried by allied aircraft could sink the ships of any nation that might oppose them. Dive bombers weren't completely obsolete, the Helldiver served on front line duty until replaced by the Skyraider which was originally designed as a combo dive and torpedo bomber. The Skyraider did a fair bit of dive bombing in Korea and Vietnam. But nobody needed aerial torpedoes by the time Japan's largest ships were put out of service. They did continue to be used by subs and are still carried by subs today.

By the time any possible opposition had larger ships again, guided missiles were in use. The handwriting about guided missiles was on the wall in WW II. The Germans used them some as well as the US, but they were expensive and finicky weapons in the mid-1940s. It was obvious to anyone who understood the technology to any degree that the guidance systems would be improving with time and they showed far more promise than torpedoes. Not only were they faster, but could be dropped much further from the target.

Bill

And now the Russians have supercavatating torps that travel hundreds of miles an hour for up to 300 miles ...[X(]

Wake homing keel breaking torpedoes are now the real threat

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: desicat

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: wdolson




They were becoming obsolete. Obsolete weapons sometimes succeed.

By the end of the war, only three navies had any large ships, and they were allies: the UK, France, and the US. Rockets carried by allied aircraft could sink the ships of any nation that might oppose them. Dive bombers weren't completely obsolete, the Helldiver served on front line duty until replaced by the Skyraider which was originally designed as a combo dive and torpedo bomber. The Skyraider did a fair bit of dive bombing in Korea and Vietnam. But nobody needed aerial torpedoes by the time Japan's largest ships were put out of service. They did continue to be used by subs and are still carried by subs today.

By the time any possible opposition had larger ships again, guided missiles were in use. The handwriting about guided missiles was on the wall in WW II. The Germans used them some as well as the US, but they were expensive and finicky weapons in the mid-1940s. It was obvious to anyone who understood the technology to any degree that the guidance systems would be improving with time and they showed far more promise than torpedoes. Not only were they faster, but could be dropped much further from the target.

Bill

And now the Russians have supercavatating torps that travel hundreds of miles an hour for up to 300 miles ...[X(]

Wake homing keel breaking torpedoes are now the real threat

Just when we thought it was safe to swim ... [;)]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

Speaking of late war successful torpedo attacks, there's DD Twiggs.

On 16 June, Twiggs was on radar picket duty off Senaga Shima in the western fire support area At 2030, a single, low-flying plane dropped a torpedo which hit Twiggs on her port side, exploding her number 2 magazine. The plane then circled and completed its kamikaze mission in a suicide crash. The explosion enveloped the destroyer in flame; and, within an hour, she sank.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Twiggs_(DD-591)

It seems that kamikaze attack was pointless. Surely magazine explosion would have sunk the ship anyway?

Well yes, but single examples of success are not indicative of the general lack of success surrounding these weapons as the war progressed. For the most part, the dive bomber and torpedo bomber had become almost useless for the Japanese and the ratio of loss to success was not on their side. This does not mean dive bombing or other conventional attacks had become totally obsolete. They remained effective against enemy forces and still could be if the force is not well armed. But you have to consider the target. The Vietnamese War or Korea are not good examples as those combatants really did not have sufficient AA weapons to challenge these types of attacks. However, any sort of attack with conventional DBs and TBs against a modern (read victorious) power in 1945 would have been very difficult. Brits, Soviets, US and even Germany had the AAA defenses to make these platforms too deadly. I remember reading an article about Beaufighters attacking German barges in the North Sea. It was a combined and closely coordinated attack with gunfire, rockets and torpedoes all being launched in one simultaneous attack. Effective but dangerous as hell as the Germans knew how to shoot back. The Beaus made one pass released everything they had and that was it. No second pass.

[Dili]

Yes but you can say the same about a contemporary missile if the target is a USN TF with several carriers. Arriving 3-4km distance plus the time to guide the weapon near it is still a suicide despite being less worse than have to go nearer 1km or so.