Can Japan win the grand campaign?

[Rising-Sun]

Ever since i got this game some years back, i think its was around 2009 or 2010. Looking forward to get into this and see what it actually feel like playing on the Japan side. The reasons i like it, cause i like to do alot of macro managements, export resources to homeland, etc. Infact they do have some nice toys as well.

Played it few times, left cause i wasnt happy with it. I cant remember, part is IRL issues that pulled me away from this massive game. I did tried to mod it, after six months of hard work, unfort my HD crashes and couldnt save those files

Anyway the grand campaign playing as Japan vs. AI, is it possible to win on the Japan side? The way i saw the tools or editor on those units and i find too many that doesnt add up or belong there. Another word, the Russian forces have too much experiences by 1945 i believe and most of them are caught up over near Germany. Would taken them a long time to get organized and transported all the way to Manchuria. Also noticed one or two Russian plane models is off abit, that doesnt feel accurate at all, its too OP!

I know some Russian divisions gain some combat experiences, but never that high, esp for all of them.

[Walloc]

Alot of things are subjctive so im not gona touch on those specificly. Like is exp to high.

You train of thought do mirror what the japanease intelligence officers thought leading up to the Russians entering the war in the pacific. No way they can move much, that fast east.

What we can establish is that the plans for the operation started in march 45. Trains started rolling east from april on.
136,000 railcar moved initially with 403,335 men and 2,119 tanks and SPGs. Eventually doubling the divisions in the east from 40 to 80+ so more than half with exp from the european front. At the eve of the offensive the russians had more than 1.5m troops, 3,704 tanks and 1,852 SPG.

Facing them was 713,000 in the Kwantung Army. 24 inf div's, 9 inf bde's and 2 tank bde's. In all 1,155 armored vehicles. The wording armored vehicle is on purpose.
170,000 men of the Manchukoan army and 44,000 auxileries from in Inner Mongolia, mostly cavalry.
The japanese staff officers in the Kwantung Army calculated that compared to the 1937 standarts. The 24 divs and 9 bde's deployed in 1945 equaled the combat effectivness of 6 and 2/3 of a division. The replacement for the 19 inf. div's and 2 tanks divs that had been removed from the Kwantung army since 1942 was lacking much equipment and training.

The japanese commanders in Manchuria recognised this and had layed out plans for delaying tactics, but hadnt informed lower echelon commands of this.

Japanese side had about 50 first line combat planes.

Obviously history doesnt have to be mirrored in game, but the Kwantung army was at its peak nominial strength in 1945 personel wise.

Kind regards,
Rasmus

[BananaConvention]

Absolutely they can win. Lodrik recently defeated StrategyGamingDojo in Scenario 1 playing Japan, and Hellsenstrat has several victories as Japan against human opponents. It is quite possible to win.

[Platoonist]

Anyway the grand campaign playing as Japan vs. AI, is it possible to win on the Japan side?

Given how poorly the AI plays the Allies and how negligently it guards its shipping from surface raiders, it's not that uncommon to meet the 4-1 auto-victory conditions after a year of play. In which case you'll never have to worry about meeting the Russians.

Japanese Victory 1943.jpg (255.96 KiB) Viewed 2435 times

[Maallon]

If you are worried about the Soviets, I would suggest attacking them first.
They are at their weakest during the first half of 1942.

[Rising-Sun]

Interesting. I could change few things around by making another mod, the one i did and i do remember most things that are important.

But yes the AIs isnt that great, but i do know they can cheat though.

[RangerJoe]

2 November 1942.

Japanese points: 61,634
Allied points: 8,821

Chungking has over 2400 Chinese AV with lots of support units, I have been making minor attacks with little losses and have reduced the fort level to 0! I have almost 6,000 AV there, one thousand more on the march to Chungking, plus about 3,000 nearby that I can rotate if need be but they are slowly grinding Chinese units that had left Chungking into sausages. Chungking has almost no supplies.

I am working on NE Australia and the Kokoda Trail. I hold Port Augusta, Cairns, and Cooktown. I may invade Port Moresby soon but there is still a minefield there.

I plan on liberating Australia, then New Zealand. Then move over to India but I may not cross the line of death there. Then it will be either the Soviets or Big Canada Land but not Little Canada Land since it is not depicted in the game.

[Bo Rearguard]

But yes the AIs isnt that great, but i do know they can cheat though.

If this is what routinely happens with the Allied AI cheating, I'd hate to see an even game.

Sunken Allied Ships.jpg (259.59 KiB) Viewed 2258 times

[Rising-Sun]

But yes the AIs isnt that great, but i do know they can cheat though.

If this is what routinely happens with the Allied AI cheating, I'd hate to see an even game.


Sunken Allied Ships.jpg

Well i do remember down near Saigon, i had one fighter group on CAP near two airfield. So the next day, the weather was kinda dull and i put them on rest. Then the heavy strategic bombers came. Put on alert on CAP next day, a week later put them on rest again, those heavy bombers came again.

What i going to do is, bait it if they going to cheat like that and have one on rest and other active. Having another airfield or two nearby do the same. Was told those Ki-45 "Nick" are good taken down those B-17s, depending on the pilot skills.

[RangerJoe]

You don't run your fighters on 100% CAP. If they are not active otherwise, their fatigue should not go beyond the low single digits and their morale should stay high as well. I won't say anything about their morals, however.

[Rising-Sun]

You don't run your fighters on 100% CAP. If they are not active otherwise, their fatigue should not go beyond the low single digits and their morale should stay high as well. I won't say anything about their morals, however.

I only do that when there a carrier fleets nearby, but depend how bad the fatigue is. I normally set CAP around 30-50%.

[RangerJoe]

I honestly thought that it would have taken more attacks but this was the last one for Chungking:

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 194143 troops, 2375 guns, 1243 vehicles, Assault Value = 5895

Defending force 115364 troops, 665 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1448

Japanese adjusted assault: 5772

Allied adjusted defense: 2079

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Chungking !!!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
SB-III: 2 destroyed
P-66 Vanguard: 2 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
10790 casualties reported
Squads: 54 destroyed, 988 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 102 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 99 disabled
Guns lost 68 (7 destroyed, 61 disabled)
Vehicles lost 25 (1 destroyed, 24 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
115364 casualties reported
Squads: 2334 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 7731 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 414 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 665 (665 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 60

Assaulting units:
27th/A Division
104th/C Division
13th/B Division
6th Guards/A Division
41st/C Division
6th Guards/B Division
24th/A Division
104th/B Division
17th/B Division
29th/B Division
22nd/B Division
3rd/C Division
58th/C Division
12th/B Division
40th/B Division
13th/A Division
22nd/C Division
60th/C Division
60th/A Division
17th/A Division
59th/C Division
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
39th/C Division
13th Tank Regiment
8th/C Division
40th/A Division
40th/C Division
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade
6th Guards/C Division
29th/C Division
24th/B Division
60th/B Division
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
51st/A Division
39th/B Division
29th/A Division
41st/A Division
13th/C Division
58th/A Division
8th/A Division
9th Tank Regiment
27th/C Division
59th/A Division
104th/A Division
24th/C Division
41st/B Division
17th Tank Regiment
37th/A Division
17th/C Division
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th Mortar Battalion
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
10th Mortar Battalion
13th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
10th Mortar Battalion
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
1st Mortar Battalion
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
21st Army

Defending units:
66th Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
95th Chinese Corps
71st Chinese Corps
9th Prov Chinese Corps
86th Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Division
30th Chinese Corps
49th Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
58th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
12th Construction Regiment
34th Group Army
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
39th Group Army
14th Construction Regiment
7th Group Army
21st Group Army
6th Construction Regiment
37th Group Army
31st Group Army
3rd Chinese Base Force
Central Reserve
1st Artillery Regiment
57th AT Gun Regiment
41st AA Regiment
8th Construction Regiment
16th Group Army
7th Artillery Regiment
16th Construction Regiment
2nd Reserve Division
22nd Artillery Regiment
5th Chinese Base Force
3rd Group Army
7th War Area
88th Chinese Division
5th Construction Regiment
China Command
32nd Group Army
8th War Area
200th Chinese Division
21st Chinese Base Force
10th Construction Regiment
22nd Group Army
10th Group Army
3rd War Area
20th Artillery Regiment
1st Chinese Base Force
2nd Group Army
18th Artillery Regiment
19th Chinese Base Force
11th Construction Regiment
CAF HQ
12th Group Army
38th Group Army
35th Group Army
13th Construction Regiment
49th AA Regiment

[btd64]

Nice Job....GP

[RangerJoe]

Thank you.

The forts started at level 9 for the siege, but the last time that I dropped them to 0, then I pounded the airfield. I did find a relatively easy way to waste the Chinese supplies as well as reducing the Chinese forts rather cheaply.

[Gregg]

Playing Japan against the AI; if you don't win the full campaign game, you need more practice.
Face it, the AI is only good enough for learning the game, and frankly having fun mopping the Pacific with the AI.

Playing Japan against a person playing the Allies; well then it is very hard to win the campaign, but it can be done.
It will all depend upon who is the better player.

The first two years as Japan will normally go in Japan's favor, after that, the total weight of the Allied side will tilt the game in the Allies favor.
It really all depends upon how well Japan does in the first two years; after that it is holding onto what you have, and playing a great defence.
It is hard to do, but you can win the game as Japan, if you are good, and lucky.

[Rising-Sun]

Playing Japan against the AI; if you don't win the full campaign game, you need more practice.
Face it, the AI is only good enough for learning the game, and frankly having fun mopping the Pacific with the AI.

Playing Japan against a person playing the Allies; well then it is very hard to win the campaign, but it can be done.
It will all depend upon who is the better player.

The first two years as Japan will normally go in Japan's favor, after that, the total weight of the Allied side will tilt the game in the Allies favor.
It really all depends upon how well Japan does in the first two years; after that it is holding onto what you have, and playing a great defence.
It is hard to do, but you can win the game as Japan, if you are good, and lucky.

Yes i agreed with you here, i did played few PBEMs and sadly some didnt know what they were doing and others breaking the house rules. Infact the worst parts, they gave up cause they lose a carrier, etc. So i perfer playing the AI instead. Someday i will crawl back in there again, but i still need to mod it. I remember few things that needed to be corrected or improved.

[GetAssista]

Anyway the grand campaign playing as Japan vs. AI, is it possible to win on the Japan side?

Getting autovictory is trivial. So I tried to conquer the world instead, and apparently it is doable by the end of 1942

[MarkShot]

I am curious why the fortunes of off map theaters are modeled in WITW and WITE-2, but not the ETO for WITP-AE.

As Churchill and Roosevelt said Europe first, I would think unexpected events in the ETO could have a major impact on the modeled conflict of WITP-AE.

Comments?

[GetAssista]

I am curious why the fortunes of off map theaters are modeled in WITW and WITE-2, but not the ETO for WITP-AE.

The only external variation in WITP-AE is a variable time of reinforcements arrival as an option to choose when starting a scenario. You will still get all the units that are lined up in the queues, just a bit (IIRC a +-3 months max) earlier or later than their scenario date

[Platoonist]

I am curious why the fortunes of off map theaters are modeled in WITW and WITE-2, but not the ETO for WITP-AE.

As Churchill and Roosevelt said Europe first, I would think unexpected events in the ETO could have a major impact on the modeled conflict of WITP-AE.

Comments?

The concept of modeling off board theaters for 2 by 3 Games seems to have debuted with War in the West in 2014 with the advent of the "East Front" Box. War in the Pacific, which is the originator game for Admiral's Edition came out back in 2004. At the time Gary Grigsby said WITP was the most complex thing he had ever programmed, so the concept of trying to model a whole other theater off map was probably the furthest thing from his mind giving what he was grappling with then. When WITP/Admiral's Edition came out in 2009 they did add the off-map transit boxes, which itself was a major change from the 2004 edition.

Frankly, I think the current game is complex enough without the Allied player having to decide which divisions, ships and air squadrons to send/not send to Europe on a daily or weekly basis.

The original War in the East (2010) didn't model off map theaters either. So I guess the short answer to your question is that the idea, programming resources or desire for such a feature just hadn't manifested itself yet prior to War in the West. At least for 2 by 3 Games.