A6M3 upgrading squadrons

[Gratch1111]

The A6M3 is a ground based aircraft as far as I can tell, not only in the game but IRL as well, however I just checked and I had no problem upgrading a fighter squadron on a carrier from A6M2 to A6M3. Isnt there a mechanism to prevent this? Just to be clear I will restart my save and not use this exploit if its a thing, however I would like an answer to my initial question.

[dr.hal]

The A6M3 is a ground based aircraft as far as I can tell, not only in the game but IRL as well, however I just checked and I had no problem upgrading a fighter squadron on a carrier from A6M2 to A6M3. Isnt there a mechanism to prevent this? Just to be clear I will restart my save and not use this exploit if its a thing, however I would like an answer to my initial question.

The M3 was the non CV capable version of the M2, thus had no tailhook. If you don't want your M2s to upgrade to M3s, then select "do not upgrade" until you get the M3a version of the Zero in numbers than when you upgrade, select the 3a version and you will upgrade to that aircraft which is CV capable, thus skipping over the M3 completely....

[Chris21wen]

What Dr Hal said.

I'm unsure how familiar you are with Japanese research mechanics but do not ignore research on the A6M3 and go straight to the 3a. Researching through earlier models for any aircraft family will result in all future models being recieved earlier, much early in many cases than their scheduled due date.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Check your carrier with the A6M3, the a/c capacity is now probably shown on red which means the carrier is overstacked and cannot perform flight ops. IIRC non-carrier a/c will take 4 capacity "slots" per airframe instead of one slot per dedicated carrier a/c.

[Sardaukar]

Unfortunate mistake many have made also with F4U-1 Corsair (also non-carrier capable).

[Gratch1111]

Thanks for answers. No I didnt check how it worked in the game, but interesting mechanic to make it possible but costly.

Yes I know to research the A6M3.

[PaxMondo]

The A6M3 is a ground based aircraft as far as I can tell, not only in the game but IRL as well, however I just checked and I had no problem upgrading a fighter squadron on a carrier from A6M2 to A6M3. Isnt there a mechanism to prevent this? Just to be clear I will restart my save and not use this exploit if its a thing, however I would like an answer to my initial question.

always not automatic japan can do real mischief in manual upgrades against the Fau corsair in manual you can get the A6m8 in 1944. you need 300 A6m3 only and factorys will change

I know I am in the minority, but A6M is really outdated by 12/42; it doesn't matter which model. It's a 350mph fighter in a 400mph world by 1/43, and after that it just gets worse. Some JFB's make a big deal of various A6M models, but I've never seen the romance of it at all. IJN needs the A7M and the J7W.

That isn't to say I don't like the A6M, in '42 it is my favorite fighter for the IJ (I just wish I had more IJN fighter groups, but instead you are swamped with IJA groups). But, as '42 draws to an end, I make sure that I have something MUCH better to start putting my IJN pilots into. I rarely ever see an A6M past the A6M3a in my games; and I certainly don't waste RnD on it
Sure, the A6M3 is a bit better than the A6M2, and the A6M3a even moreso; but these are very minor improvements in the overall context of fighter aircraft in WWII. There is a reason that the A6M2 was produced throughout the war: the later versions weren't that much better. Sure, I use them when I get them, but as I said, I don't spend effort getting them.

[Sardaukar]

I bet that @TheElf would have interesting insights about game model.

Basically speed and climb are really important, over MVR.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Think that the A6M3 is the worst Japanese aircraft. It has no firepower, that's why I say it's only worth building 300 to replace the A6M2s on all the aircraft carriers and not fight because you would lose the Japanese pilots. Just wait to quickly change for the A6M5s on the aircraft carriers.

The A6M3 should *not* be used on carriers, for the reason pointed out above.

When playing with PDU off, about 50 A6M3 should be produced in order to be able to upgrade those land-based squadrons which have an upgrade path M2 > M3 > M3a.

With PDU on, the M3 may be skipped in production.

However, the M3 should be researched in order to reach 30 repaired R&D factories as quickly as possible, and then be switched through the upgrade path (if PBEM rules allow to skip) to whatever Zero model you want to use mid-war before switching R&D to the A7M Sam.

[PaxMondo]

Think that the A6M3 is the worst Japanese aircraft. It has no firepower, that's why I say it's only worth building 300 to replace the A6M2s on all the aircraft carriers and not fight because you would lose the Japanese pilots. Just wait to quickly change for the A6M5s on the aircraft carriers.

Not sure what your basis for your statement is for the A6M3 or maybe I'm just miss-understanding.

In 6/42, the IJN only has the A5M4, A6M2, A6M3.
The A6M3 has the same armament as the A6M2 which is the best of any 1E fighter for the IJ:

A6M3 Screenshot 2024-12-29 211419.jpg (12.55 KiB) Viewed 767 times

A6M3 is not the worst, just not much better (only 8 mph faster) than the A6M2 (otherwise identical specs) and is NOT CV capable. I also don't build many, but not because it is bad, but rather because it isn't really better. As I state above, I tend to NOT spend any RnD on the A6M line at all. I want the A7M soonest, so my RnD is there. My only question is whether I spend some RnD on N1K. Now the N1K, compared to the A6M line brings firepower, DUR, armor, a bit more speed (+360mph), and still decent range (12).

[Chris21wen]

hola pax, the point is to put the a6m3 on aircraft carriers so that the a8 reppu arrives as soon as possible.
....

Not sure what this means? It seems to imply that if you put the m3 on a carrier it will increase the research time for the m8? Appologises if I've got this wrong.

To clarify in the standard game and irrespective of what you think of the A6M2 family line here's my take.
Any improvement is better than none.
The m3 is not carrier capable and should never be put on a carrier.
R&D is confusing as the m2 upgrades to the Sen Baku then to the m5b. I never research the Sen Baku, it's due date is too far away and the m5b can be reached faster by researching from the A6M3. Plus, you get all the othe minor improvements along the way.
This does mean you have to spend extra supply repairing the upgraded A6M2 factories (to m3a) but they always reapair one a day given supply.

[PaxMondo]

hola pax, the point is to put the a6m3 on aircraft carriers so that the a8 reppu arrives as soon as possible.
....

Not sure what this means? It seems to imply that if you put the m3 on a carrier it will increase the research time for the m8? Appologises if I've got this wrong.

right if you stop the production of a6m3. factorys upgrade soon to a6m5, thats the mechanic. to get the reppu.

my opinion its to build 3000 a6m2 and build a few of everything stopping the oscar. and then the reppu cames on mid 1944.

MKmark: I'm not sure exactly what you are saying but if you are stating that there is an RnD link between the A6M and the A7M ... there isn't.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with you. I don't RnD A6M at all. I produce A6M2 until A7M arrives (I often build some A6M3a's when they arrive, but not always), and I put enough RnD on the A7M to make that arrive in '44. Sometimes I will put some RnD on N1K as well, depends upon my strategy.

Conserving the KB air groups is straightforward: you do NOT have to actually use them. And absolutely, I would never commit the KB unless I know I am at a HUGE advantage. And the two keys to that are well known:
1. Force/Trick the allies into committing their CV's in 42/43. (In 44 you won't need to lure them, they are coming for sure and you pretty much know where.)
2. Have sufficient reaction forces available to take advantage of those commitments and make the allies pay.

Are either of these easy? Heck no. If they were, JFB's would win all the games. But we know that JFB's are on the losing side more often than not, hence the game.

[Sardaukar]

There is axiom in Shattered Sword that Japanese forgot in real war but works also in WitP-AE:

"There are only two targets in Pacific, those that are worth attacking with full Kido Butai and those that are not worth attacking with it."

It basically means that don't split KB to go after secondary targets. Japanese did split which did lead to Coral Sea and then disaster in Midway. Had IJN arrived to both with full KB, it'd be very hard for them to lose the battles.

[PaxMondo]

... the problem for japan is the allied Flak. japan planes not big armour; thats the big question.

Armor saves pilots, but DUR saves planes and yes, IJ planes have neither. So AA is a challenge.

The best way to avoid AA is night bombing, just remember that it takes HIGH exp on the crews and high LEADERSHIP on the commanders to get many planes on target. And your ops losses at night are double what they are for day ... so plan for it.

The second best way is to find the gaps in the allied AA. They exist, but they are not easy to find and each ally AA has different gaps, so it takes time and trial and error to find the gap. GAP=altitude where there is a hole in the overall AA. So the brit AA gap is not the same as the US gap. And the USN and USArmy have different gaps as well.

...
N1k1 what a great plane. your right.

I would not say great. I don't think the IJ have ANY great fighters. All of them suffer from at least one significant defect. Having said that, the N1K isn't terrible. Be so much better if it was closer to 400mph, but we don't get that.

One the "funny things" for me is that the IJ understood that their fighters needed range for attack. But they completely missed the part that they need SPEED for attack. If you can't catch them, you cannot fight them. Maneuver can work for defense, but you gotta have speed on the offense.

Of course, maybe they did know but just couldn't get it. Their inability to develop multi-stage induction or twin chargers was a major issue for them. But their axis allies had both and they could easily have gotten them but somehow failed to do so. I don't know if it was NIH or something else. Anyway ... it is what it is .... and fighters are the "good news", don't get me started on the paucity of good bombers ....

[Nazcatraz]

There is axiom in Shattered Sword that Japanese forgot in real war but works also in WitP-AE:

"There are only two targets in Pacific, those that are worth attacking with full Kido Butai and those that are not worth attacking with it."

It basically means that don't split KB to go after secondary targets. Japanese did split which did lead to Coral Sea and then disaster in Midway. Had IJN arrived to both with full KB, it'd be very hard for them to lose the battles.

Who knows, they could have lost the entire 6 carriers instead of 4. We have to remember that Nimitz knew about the whole thing. So maybe it's a good thing (for Japan) that they didn't come with all 6.

[Chris21wen]

There is axiom in Shattered Sword that Japanese forgot in real war but works also in WitP-AE:

"There are only two targets in Pacific, those that are worth attacking with full Kido Butai and those that are not worth attacking with it."

It basically means that don't split KB to go after secondary targets. Japanese did split which did lead to Coral Sea and then disaster in Midway. Had IJN arrived to both with full KB, it'd be very hard for them to lose the battles.

Who knows, they could have lost the entire 6 carriers instead of 4. We have to remember that Nimitz knew about the whole thing. So maybe it's a good thing (for Japan) that they didn't come with all 6.

Or maybe the US would not have had any carriers, all sunk in the Coral Sea. It's all pure speculations with no thought to the historial facts surrounding the decisions.

[Sardaukar]

6 CVs vs. 2-3 is horribly bad odds for USN in that situation.

[Nazcatraz]

6 vs 4.

[Platoonist]

Nimitz was willing to fight if the odds at the point of contact were roughly even, but not if they favored Japan.
That might not have been a bad decision considering the ground reinforcements Midway had received prior to the battle. Probably the most eye-opening chapter in Shattered Sword for me was the one discussing the inadequacy of the amphibious force Japan brought to take the atoll. Even if the US Navy had declined battle, Colonel Ichiki's troopers likely would have faced a landing that would have made Tarawa seem like a beach party given the spot they were due to land at.

[Sardaukar]

6 vs 4.

USS Saratoga was hit with torpedo Jan 11 1942 and was out for permanent repairs and upgrades at Bremerton Navy Yard from 9 February until June 1942.

So, 3 CVs max available.