Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (Allies)

[seydlitz_slith]

And for the production fanboys....Here is a snapshot of my engine and aircraft factories as of the end of turn 17.

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[seydlitz_slith]

I have tried to post enough maps and information screens to let readers get a feel for the flow of the game. I have limited posting a bunch of combat reports because not everyone likes those.

I didn't post combat reports of the Petropavlovsk landing slaughter because it would have taken a whole forum page by iteslf. Also, most of the air attacks on Russian forces were pretty boring since the Soviets didn't fly and the weather was stormy in the hexes.

Feel free to comment on what you want to see more (or less) of in this AAR.

I decided to write this AAR to help everyone who reads it, as well as myself, to learn and become better at the game.

Again, I also want to thank my highly reliable and skilled opponent. I am sure that he will have several surprises for me in the future. I just hope that I can stay one step ahead of him early and one step away from him later in the war.

[Ketza]

I am enjoying your different approach and attacking the USSR.

Nice AAR.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard

I remember that in stock WITP the designers admitted that the Soviet OB was taken from the Soviet deployment as of June 22, 1941, therefore not taking into account the substantial withdrawals the Soviets made by Dec. 7 to the European front. Is this the same case in AE?

The part about the Soviet WITP OOB is basically correct; however, the designers of WITP did not add the Soviet forces under the Transbaikal Front, only the forces of Far East Front. In the AE we have the Soviet OOB for both Far East and Transbaikal Fronts as of 7th Dec 1941 with the (historical) withdrawals/reinforcements later.

That being said, Seydlitz will face the Soviet forces that were in the Far East and Transbaikal in 1941/42 (+ one division from the Central Asia MD). Will not comment about the relative strengths here because I don't want to spoil the fun of Seydlitz and his opponent.

To put it simply: The Soviet OOB in the AE is completely different from the WITP OOB. Wait and see!

K

[khyberbill]

Khyberbill: Artillery does a lot more in AE. I have a huge stack of it headed around to my point of friction. I started moving all the guns in Korea in turn one to get them up where I needed them. I have also noticed that aircraft seem to kill more troops. In fact, I believe that I have totally destroyed via bombing the Victoria Point and Tavoy garrisons. They started with about 600 troops each and over a few turns worth of bombing I killed more than that number. Suddenly the units no longer even showed up on the map. That was eye opening.

As JFB's awaken to the awesome power that Japan has with artillery in the China theatre, you are going to see some smiling faces. My current PBEM opponent has had no trouble keeping them supplied either, just click that magic + toggle next to supply and viola!

Once you force the Chinese to retreat, and that is not hard at all, even behind lvl 3 or 4 forts, then the slaughter continues. Like the old French cavalry charges in the Napoleonic Wars. On the plus side, the divisions do come back at 1/3 TOE in Chungking 30 days later, which tends to make them stronger or as strong as they are at start.

If your air attacks are that powerful then your opponent probably has all his troops in combat mode, which they tend to be when under attack anyway. You can reset the next turn to reserve, unless you are playing two day turns like we are, then on the second day, while still in combat mode, they can get hurt bad, but I havent had any wiped out by air attacks yet. Artillery bombardments on the second day of the turn really can be devastating.

[Streptokok]

So many Mabels building and no Kates???
Still producing Nates? and at higher rate than Oscars?

What gives? [&:]


PS. Val replacement rate at 12. Is that enough?

[sval062]

Check the third post of this thread.
To sum up Seydlitz considers that:
- Mabel is as good as Kate and does not use the Ha35 engine. It is a good point since Ha35 is also used for Zeros, Oscar or Lily (all very needed planes)
- He is building Nates until the end of engines stocks (and nates are also required because it is the most common fighter of the IJA at start)

Can't wait for the following of this game

Edit: He explained much better than me in the following post, but I don't find how to erase this one. [:D]

[seydlitz_slith]

ORIGINAL: Streptokok

So many Mabels building and no Kates???
Still producing Nates? and at higher rate than Oscars?

What gives? [&:]


PS. Val replacement rate at 12. Is that enough?

Yep, no Kates. I am going with Mabels instead. They don't use the critical HA-35 engine, have a much higher cruising speed than the Kate, and essentially the same in all other stats. In fact, Mabel was designed as an alternate platform in case the Kate was a failure. I do not believe that it was in witp, but since it is in AE there are some benefits to selecting it over Kate.

Regarding the Nates, what you are seeing is the initial production capacity still rolling along. There were about a hundred engines in the pool and I elected to continue the production until all the engines were consumed. I have already swapped the engine factory to something else. Besides, at this stage of the war the Nate is still useful, and after that it will be a trainer for new pilots.

The vals may be an oversight on my part. I need to check it next turn.If it is, I will probably bump it up to 48 per month. Good catch.

[Streptokok]

He will have to replace all KB Kates to Mabels then, cant replenish them with no spare production.
And Mables have service rating 2 while N2 Kates have 1.

I dont bother with Nates, in my game vs AI they proved to be complete waste just like A5M Claudes, i convert them to Oscars Ic ASAP, Oscars higher gun value seem to have great impact on the outcome of air to air combat in my game.

Anyway I still think that leaving total Oscar production at only 32x Ic is wrong. But compared to you guys im a newb, still no PEBMS played. Dont think anyone has time to tangle with newbs in PEBM games...

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Hi Seydlitz, excellent AAR. It's allways nice to see some new strategy like invasion of USSR.

What I would like to see in AAR? I am always curious how your available forces are changing. So I'd like to see reinforcements which become ready for your use. Newly built ships, newly formed squadrons and land units. Also it would be nice to know if on such turn a new plane type become available.

I thought that there would be no Soviet Navy in AE. Something changed? For me, navy (by saying navy I mean about 50 submarines!) is main reason why Japan should not attack USSR. Also - almost every ship able to carry mines. I think that short runs of DDs laying mines in Japanese ports could be valid and historical tactics for Soviets.

[seydlitz_slith]

ORIGINAL: Streptokok

He will have to replace all KB Kates to Mabels then, cant replenish them with no spare production.
And Mables have service rating 2 while N2 Kates have 1.

I dont bother with Nates, in my game vs AI they proved to be complete waste just like A5M Claudes, i convert them to Oscars Ic ASAP, Oscars higher gun value seem to have great impact on the outcome of air to air combat in my game.

Anyway I still think that leaving total Oscar production at only 32x Ic is wrong. But compared to you guys im a newb, still no PEBMS played. Dont think anyone has time to tangle with newbs in PEBM games...

I realize that the Mabel is a service rating 2 to the Kate's 1, but I considered how I use my carriers. I tend to use them in short, violent conflicts that are over in a day. Either I have won (or lost) or most of the torpedo bombers have been shot down. Either way, the 2 didn't bother me. Now if it had been a 3 or 4 I might have done otherwise. Also, the significantly higher cruise speed of the Mabel is very important. Japan starts with several small Mabel units and I have flown these daily (as land based missions) and so far have not seen any maintenance availability issues.

In practice, you will see some of my carriers equipped with Kates and some with Mabels so that I can have a good replacement pool of torpedo bombers for most of the first year. By downgrading the starting land based Kate units to Jeans, I have a pool of just over 100 Kates to tide me over until I get enough Mabels produced to start converting other units. So, I will always have a pool of Kates even though I am not building any since the converted units will put more Kates back into the pool.

The other consideration is the engine. B5N2 Kate wants HA-35, which is also wanted by the Zero and the Oscar. I need time to build up the production and stockpile of HA-35 engines, and I want the initial supply of these engines to go to building zero fighters.

The engine issue should make my reasoning about not initially producing the Oscar clear. I do not want anything sucking precious engines away from the Zero in the first few months. The Oscar is a good fighter, but the firepower is still anemic and to be honest it is still at a speed disadvantage against the P-40. You will probably see Oscar production start in late January or early February.

The Nate is good enough for the Army for the first few months. Sure you will lose some, but they can hold their own against all starting allied fighters that they are likely to encounter except for the P-40 and Wildcat. As long as you use them with caution, they can get the job accomplished. It is a better fighter than it was in WITP, and often I use it to also attack ground targets. There is just no point to waste all those engines in the pool.

For what it's worth, I have multiple Nate pilots in Malaya that have kills including 1 that is getting close to being an ace.

I even use the Claude on some missions during the first month of the war, at least until I can spare enough zero fighters to replace them in the front line units. You will then likely see them in Japan as training units to keep the more modern fighters in the combat units. The Claude is frustrating since it has the poor firepower of the Nate, but also lacks the speed to chase down most bombers. Nothing is more frustrating than to have incoming bombers, see your Claudes make one impotent attack, and then get the message "Claude can't catch bombers."

[seydlitz_slith]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Hi Seydlitz, excellent AAR. It's allways nice to see some new strategy like invasion of USSR.

What I would like to see in AAR? I am always curious how your available forces are changing. So I'd like to see reinforcements which become ready for your use. Newly built ships, newly formed squadrons and land units. Also it would be nice to know if on such turn a new plane type become available.

I thought that there would be no Soviet Navy in AE. Something changed? For me, navy (by saying navy I mean about 50 submarines!) is main reason why Japan should not attack USSR. Also - almost every ship able to carry mines. I think that short runs of DDs laying mines in Japanese ports could be valid and historical tactics for Soviets.

I will try to slip some of this info into the AAR. Thanks for asking.

I am wondering whether or not the Soviet Navy is present. My recon of their ports aren't turning up any ships docked so we shall see. Even if they were present, I wouldn't worry much about the mines since the number of mines in AE is severely limited.

[aztez]

What kind of resistance has the Soviet airforce managed to do? With the new air to air combat model it should be tough going here.

I just checked and there are tons of Soviet submarines waiting to be activated. You are not concerned with these. They could cause you all sort of problems.

Keep up the good work!

[Swenslim]

Nice nice!

[Cathartes]

Good luck ol partner! I will be very interested to see what you can accomplish against the Soviets.

[seydlitz_slith]

ORIGINAL: Cathartes

Good luck ol partner! I will be very interested to see what you can accomplish against the Soviets.

Thanks. I will probably need it, but I do plan to be victorious in the theater.

[seydlitz_slith]

ORIGINAL: aztez

What kind of resistance has the Soviet airforce managed to do? With the new air to air combat model it should be tough going here.

I just checked and there are tons of Soviet submarines waiting to be activated. You are not concerned with these. They could cause you all sort of problems.

Keep up the good work!

I figure that I will find out soon. I just received the turn back from my opponent and I am about to run it.